unisons by ear or machine

[Joe & Penny Goss]

John,
I too am finding the same results when using Virgil Smith's method of tuning
the octaves. If the single string  5th test is dead on or so slightly wide,
in a test, the resulting three string unison will be where you want it.
In using my SATlll, I pull the middle string sharp enough to have the lights
moving slightly to the sharp side. Then use a lower 5th and 4th to check,
tune the outside strings and check octave and 4th 5th again.
So far ( since the convention last year ) it has made a BIG improvrment in
my tuning at least according to my eas<G>
Sometimes the FAC program is dead on and no need to stretch occurs but most
times arround A3 to the top C8 needs more stretch.
As to tuning unisons with ETD or EAR it has been my experience that only
rarely will the machine do a better job than matching with the ear.
This happens for me most often when the strings are not on the level and not
mated to the hammer or another voicing related mechanical problem in the
trraveling area false beats etc., and the ETD can put the string closer than
I can to where it needs to be.
Speaking of level mine is now patented and over 130 techs are using them.
http://www.primenet.com/~imatunr/
Joe Goss

----- Original Message -----
From: John M. Formsma <jformsma@dixie-net.com>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2000 7:47 AM
Subject: RE: unisons by ear or machine


> Richard,
>
> Do this as a test to aurally verify pitch change for tuned unisons:
>
> Tune the middle strings of F3-A3 to approx 7 bps.  Then tune one outer
> string of A3 to the middle.  You will then have a 2-string unison.  If you
> have a perfect unison, the beat rate for F3-A3 will be just a bit slower
> with the unison with two strings than just the middle string and F3.  If
> this difference is not perceptible, then tune the middle string of A4 to
the
> perfect 2-string A3 unison.  Make F3-A4 beat exactly the same as F3-A3.
> Exactly.  Then tune one outer string of A4 to make a perfect unison.  You
> will notice a "big" difference in beat rates from just the middle string
> alone.  The F3-A4 beat rate will now be slower.  To verify this, put your
> mute back on the outer A4 string, allowing just the middle to sound.
> Compare F3-A4 beat rates, then remove the mute, and listen to the 2-string
> A4 with F3.  You should hear a pretty good difference in the beat rates
> then.
>
> Each string in an aurally tuned unison may not necessarily be the exact
same
> frequency.  Some will be just a hair flatter than the others, depending on
> which part of the scale you are in.  The overall pitch of three strings
> together will be a little flatter than the middle string that was first
> tuned, assuming you begin with the middle string.
>
> The flatter tuned unisons is why Virgil E. Smith tunes without a
temperament
> strip, using only two mutes to tune the entire piano.  I have been using
his
> octave (not his temperament) method for several weeks now, and have
noticed
> a big improvement in the sound of the finished piano.  Tune unisons as you
> go, then tune the octaves, listening mainly at the 2:1 level, but hearing
> all the others as well.  Get the best octave sound possible.
>
> Best regards,
>
> John Formsma
> Blue Mountain, MS
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pianotech@ptg.org [mailto:owner-pianotech@ptg.org]On Behalf
> Of Richard Moody
> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2000 12:35 AM
> To: pianotech@ptg.org
> Subject: unisons by ear or machine
>
>
> "hold the phone" as they used to say in Virginia. Let me get this
> straight.  You tune the individual strings in a unison with the RCT and it
> reads all three strings together as 0.5 cents flat??  That should make an
> audible difference in a Fifth at middle C.  And what does that unison
> sound like to the ear? What happens if you  tune each string in the unison
> by ear and then scope it with the RCT?
> This interesting because I have always suspected that the unison when
> declared "in tune" by two or more technicians might not measure out the
> way theory predicts. I could test Tunelab on this....  ---ric  (has
> suspected wrong before)
>
> ps.  What happens if you measure from the other side?
>
> ----------
> > From: Roger Jolly <baldyam@sk.sympatico.ca>
> > To: pianotech@ptg.org
> > Subject: Re: Counter bearing treatment
> > Date: Wednesday, January 12, 2000 10:05 PM
> >
> > Hi Ron,
> >            I've done quite a few measurements on the string coupling
> effect.
> > When an average 3 string unison is tuned for full blush (RCT) on each
> > individual string,
> > 2 strings played together will show about 0.3 cent flat, 3 strings will
> > show 0.5 cent flat.
> > I'm not so sure what the imformation is telling me.
> > Regards Roger
> >
> >
> >
>
>