Fellow listers, I need to set a price on an 1840 John Broadwood cottage upright. It is in very good condition, everything works, the rosewood is still looking good, and it has papers from the london manufacturer. The only blemish is a small piece of veneer has split off. The piece is with the piano and could be replaced in a short time. Please respond with dollar values or for more info. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-digest <owner-pianotech-digest@ptg.org> To: pianotech-digest@ptg.org <pianotech-digest@ptg.org> Date: Friday, January 14, 2000 7:42 PM Subject: pianotech-digest V2000 #46 > >pianotech-digest Friday, January 14 2000 Volume 2000 : Number 046 > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:44:21 EST >From: Jlovekeys@AOL.COM >Subject: Re: something to make with an old upright: > >List, I don't have a web site, but I have made a computer desk and a >workbench of a couple of pianos. I would be glad to send a pic to anyone who >might be interested. Mine are a less elaborate but may give you some ideas. >Thanks. >Jim Love >PTG Associate >Midland,Tx. > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:52:03 MDT >From: Ted_Sambell@banffcentre.ab.ca >Subject: soundboard seminar > > Subject: Time: 10:46 AM > OFFICE MEMO soundboard seminar Date: 14/01/0 >To answer a few FAQ's we're receiving: > >1.) YES, the seminar is just two days: Feb. 17th and 18th ($89.00cdn) > >2.) YES, you may register with a credit card > >3.) YES, we believe this soundboard installation workshop is the first of >it's kind. > >4.) NO, Andre (Bolduc) has no plans to offer it again (ever), at least for >a few years. > >5.) YES, there are many more hotels in Brandon. Don Rose posted the C of >C site on pianotech, for your assistance. > >6.) YES, it is easy to get to Brandon, just as easy as me going to KC, >Arlington, Providence, etc. > >7.) If you didn't download the PDF last week, just e-mail the office at: > > music@brandonu.ca > >Thanks for your interest, this could be our best P.D. this year! > >Mark Cramer, RPT >Cheif Technician >Brandon University School of Music > >presently at: the Banff Centre for the Arts > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 13:11:50 -0500 >From: "Michael K Malone" <cowboy@mpinet.net> >Subject: Re: something to make with an old upright: > >Jim I'd be interested in the pics !! > >Michael Malone >Orlando, FL Non Registered Piano Tinkler NRPT > >------------------------------ > >Date: 14 Jan 2000 10:26:02 -0800 >From: pianolover@worldspy.net >Subject: Re: tuning video? > >Hi all, > >Thanks to everyone who responded to my request for "tuning videos"....it's been a great help! > >Here's a new question: In order to save time during a pitch raise, is it possible to do so WITHOUT using mutes? Can the ear be trained to tune 2 strings of a trichord unison beatless, while the third string is vibrating as much as a 1/2 step lower? Do any techs on this list use this method when pulling up a piano, at least during the first pass? Just womnering. Thanks > >Terry Peterson >Los Angeles, CA > > >______________________________________________________________ >Get free Internet service and email at http://www.worldspy.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 12:19:17 -0600 >From: "Richard Moody" <remoody@midstatesd.net> >Subject: Re: A temp for Chipin? > >Chopin had a close realtion ship with Camille Pleyel who not only owned a >piano factory but was also a music publisher. It would be interesting to >research the records of Playel to see if there is a mention of how they >tuned the pianos in the factory. > > In the bibliography of the article "Temperament" in New Groves are three >works of Marpug, published from 1756 to 1790. They have German titles and >no note is given to indicate they were translated into English. This was >well before Chopin's time. (1810-1849). Listed also is a work on tuning >by C Montal, published in Paris in 1834 . Again no note as to >translations. I have heard this is about ET, or there is a description of >how to tune ET in there. Ellis, in the appendex to his translation of >Helmholtz, _On the Sensation of Tone_ mentioned a tuner for Broadwood >(A.J. Hipkinsa) who favored ET and did concert tunings for Chopin. (London >1848) > For something other than ET for Chopin, I would look for publications >during or after his lifetime, in French, with reference to the Pleyel >factory. If not available, New Groves gives a very good background of the >history of temperaments, and how they developed in various regions. Check >page 668. Page 670 gives detail about Marpurg, beginning with "The most >vigorous and articlulate late 18th century champion of equal temperament >seems to have been F., W Marpurg." Quoting Marpurg, "There is only one >kind of equal temperament but countless possible types of unequal >temperament. Thus the latter opens up to speculative musicians an >unstinting source of modifications, and since every musician will readily >invent one, the result will be that from time to time we shall be >presented with a new type of unequal temperament and everyone will declare >his own the best." p. 670 "Temperaments" New Groves. > Marpurg apparently collected every modification known. >Also mentioned is a book on piano tuning by Jousse "espressing preference >for a subtly unequal tempeament..." 1832 >- ---ric > >- ---------- >> From: Avery Todd <avery@ev1.net> >> To: pianotech@ptg.org >> Subject: A question on temperament-Dale >> Date: Thursday, January 13, 2000 8:16 PM >> >> Ed and others interested, >> >> Just as kind of an aside on this subject, a DMA piano performance >> major talked to me today about doing a Marpurg I and an ET on two of >> our D's for a Lecture Recital he has to do for his degree. He'll be >> playing Chopin. >> I showed him the offsets in the SAT manual and he doesn't think >> that's the same one he's been using for the piece he's talking about. >> So I may be inquiring more after we explore it some. He's supposed >> to bring me the information he has some time next week. >> One of our theory professors took a class with Owen and has told >> him that Owen said he was pretty convinced that Chopin used a >> Marpurg. Comments? >> >> Avery > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 10:29:49 PST >From: "Diane Hofstetter" <dianepianotuner@hotmail.com> >Subject: Re: something to make with an old upright: > >I can only praise his work, as I am currently sitting at my own piano >computer desk which I made out of an old french rosewood piano. His are >nicer, mine comes close. The alternatives (real computer desks that closed) >were in the $600 price range and my partners wanted to haul this beautiful >rosewood case to the dump! > >His website is spectacular too. >Diane > > >>From: robert goodale <rrg@nevada.edu> >>Reply-To: pianotech@ptg.org >>To: pianotech@ptg.org >>Subject: Re: something to make with an old upright: >>Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 09:25:49 -0800 >> >>Jon Page wrote: >> >> > This guy has ambition: >> > >> > http://scribers.midwest.net/pnotuner/desk.htm >> > >> > Jon Page, piano technician >> > Harwich Port, Cape Cod, Mass. >> > mailto:jonpage@mediaone.net >> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >>This is seriously cool! I like it! #2 & 4 are my particular >>favorites. Geeze, now I want to make one! Thanks for sharing! >> >>Rob Goodale, RPT >>Las Vegas, NV >> > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:14:11 -0500 >From: nhunt@jagat.com (Newton Hunt) >Subject: Re: tuning video? > >> is it possible to do so WITHOUT using mutes? > >Yes it is, several people can do this. Go slow and keep a lot of >string handy until you get the hang of it. THere are all sorts of >ways to get tension on a piano. > > Newton > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 11:41:49 -0800 (PST) >From: James Grebe <jim5218@yahoo.com> >Subject: Friday afternoon > >Dear Pianotech Friends. > It has been 11 days since they invaded my chest >cavity and did a quad bypass on my heart. Since that >time, I am overwhelmed by the notes, eamils, and >wishes of so many of my "brothers". I have found that >this is indeed the best profession in the world and >transcends competition among people performing the >same service. > It will be about 1 month or so till I can go out >again and join you all in our chosen profession and I >am champing at the bit. > May you all have a very prosperous New Year and >Thank You for your caring. >James > >===== >James Grebe--Creator of Handsome Hardwood Caster Cups and Practical Piano Benches >Registered Piano Tuner-Technician of the P.T.G & Master Piano Technicians of America Rt 2 Box 275 Potosi, MO 63664 314 845-8282 or 573 438/2006 leave message Jim5218@Yahoo.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. >http://im.yahoo.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 14:26:35 -0600 >From: "Stan Kroeker" <stan@pianoexperts.mb.ca> >Subject: Fwd re: Soundboard Seminar > > Subject: Time: 10:46 AM >OFFICE MEMO Bolduc soundboard seminar Date: 14/01/0 > >To answer a few FAQ's we're receiving: > >1.) YES, the seminar is just two days: Feb. 17th and 18th ($89.00cdn) > >2.) YES, you may register with a credit card > >3.) YES, we believe this soundboard installation workshop is the first of > it's kind. > >4.) NO, Andre (Bolduc) has no plans to offer it again (ever), at least for > a few years. > >5.) YES, there are many more hotels in Brandon. Don Rose posted the C of > C site on pianotech, for your assistance. > >6.) YES, it is easy to get to Brandon, just as easy as me going to KC, > Arlington, Providence, etc. > >7.) If you didn't download the PDF last week, just e-mail the office at: > > music@brandonu.ca > >Thanks for your interest, this could be our best P.D. this year! > >Mark Cramer, RPT >Cheif Technician >Brandon University School of Music > >presently at: the Banff Centre for the Arts > >message forwarded by: > >Stan Kroeker >Registered Piano Technician > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 21:35:56 +0000 >From: Barrie Heaton <Piano@forte.airtime.co.uk> >Subject: Hygrometer Questionnaire > >Dear all, > >Below is a Questionnaire for a Talking Hygrometer to be made by the >RNIB England for VI Piano Tuners However, it will be available to all >who wish to buy it. > >So if you would like to put your input in to the Questionnaire we may >end up with a good product I have said it should have a last 10 history >memory so when I get home I can put them in to the computer. > >What is my interest in this ! I want one the more feed back they get the >sooner we get it on the market. > >You can send them back to: Sabine van den Heuvel at the RNIB details >at the bottom. Or send them to me. > >Thanks for your time > > >Barrie, > > > >Talking Hygrometer >Questionnaire > > >Confidential > >This questionnaire is designed to give you the opportunity to tell RNIB >Product Development which features you would like to find on a >hygrometer designed to be used by yourself and other visually impaired >people. > >This questionnaire has two sections. In the first section we ask a few >background questions about yourself, and in the second section we >would appreciate your ideas on a hygrometer. > >Your Name > >Age: Under 10 10-20 21-40 41-50 51-60 61-70 71-80 81+ > >Gender: Male/Female > >Visual Impairment details. Please state the nature of impairment if >known and examples of sight level. (E.g. registered blind/partially >sighted etc.) > >Please list other impairments. (E.g. Arthritis, Hearing etc.) > >1. How do you currently measure the humidity? >If you don't use a hygrometer please skip to question 4. > >2. If you use a hygrometer at present, how often do you use it? > >3. Why do you use a hygrometer? > >4. Do you know of the existence of any speaking hygrometers? >A) Yes, please specify >B) No > >5. What range of humidity would you like to measure? >A) From 10% to 90% >B) Other, please specify > >6. What range of temperature would you like to measure and in >which units? >A) Celsius: 1) From 0 to 55 degrees Celsius >2) Other, please specify >B) Fahrenheit: 1) From 32 to 130 degrees Fahrenheit >2) Other, please specify > >7. If you currently use a hygrometer, do you know how accurate it >is? Yes/No >If yes, please specify its accuracy > >8. In your opinion, how accurate does a hygrometer need to be? >A) Plus or minus 2% relative humidity >B) Plus or minus 5% relative humidity >C) Other, please specify > >9. In your opinion, how accurate does the temperature >measurement need to be? >A) Plus or minus 2 degrees >B) Plus or minus 5 degrees >C) Other, please specify > >10. Should the speech volume be adjustable? >A)Yes >B)No > >11. What colour would you prefer the box to be? >A) Cream >B) Grey >C) Black > >12. Do you find a box of 70x150x25 mm: >A) Too small >B) OK >C) Too large > >13. Would you find it useful if the hygrometer could be wall mounted >or kept in a pocket? >A) Wall mounted >B) Pocket >C) Both >D) Other, please specify > >14. What other functions would you find useful on the hygrometer? >A) History with a minimum and maximum humidity / temperature >B) History with an average humidity / temperature >C) Other, please specify: > >15. If you are a piano tuner, would you recommend to any of your >customers that they should buy a talking hygrometer as a means of >recording the humidity? >A) Yes >B) No > >16. Can you think of any other people who would be interested in >buying a talking hygrometer? >A) Yes, please specify >B) No > >17. What would you be prepared to pay £40 for a Talking >Hygrometer designed with visually impaired people in mind? >A) £30 >B) £40 >C) £50 >D) Other, please specify > >18. Would you be interested in evaluating a prototype of the talking >hygrometer? Yes/No > >Please use this section if you wish to add any further comments. > > > > > >Thank you very much for your time and effort > >Please return completed questionnaire before 18 February 2000 to: >Sabine van den Heuvel >Product Development >RNIB Peterborough >PO box 173 >Peterborough >PE2 6WS >(Tel: 01733-375168) >e-mail: sheuvel@rnib.org.uk. > >- -- >Barrie Heaton Ý The U.K. Piano Page: >http://www.a440.co.uk Ý http://www.uk-piano.org/ >PGP Key on request Ý Home to the UK Piano Industry > > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 17:10:05 EST >From: Billbrpt@AOL.COM >Subject: Re: tuning video? > >In a message dated 1/14/00 5:58:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, >pianolover@worldspy.net writes: > ><< Can anyone recommend any good videos (and where to find them) on the art >of Piano tuning/servicing? >> > >I'm only sorry I couldn't answer this sooner. The best way to learn is to >get your information from as many different sources as possible. View all of >the tuning videos you can get your hands on, read all the books, go to as >many seminars as you can possible get to and try to get to the Annual >Convention. > >The first one I attended was in Minneapolis in 1979. There, Jim Coleman, Sr. >RPT taught a class along with the late George Defebaugh RPT. Both of these >individuals later earned PTG's highest honorable award, The Golden Hammer. >The lecture they gave together on Tuning changed my life forever and this was >in spite of the fact that much of it was over my head. But I kept coming >back until I understood it all. > >I have never seen the video that they made together but I think Jim Coleman >is still selling them. He is a regular contributor to this List. I am sure >that this video will contain information that confirms what you already know, >will teach you things right away that you didn't know, and may challenge you >with things you cannot readily grasp. If you have a tuning question, his >answer and opinion always contain important information you can count on. > >There are several other very highly skilled and qualified tuners who >regularly participate on the List. Beyond that, there are many other >technicians who have amazingly erudite expertise in just about any area you >might think of. Just stick with Pianotech and you will learn a lot. I have >only been with it for a couple of years but I have learned a great deal >myself, believe me, I have. > >On the other question you had, as you have already been told, yes, it is >possible to do a muteless pitch raise. There is a member of my Chapter, Mr. >Daniel P. Eberhardy RPT who does it all the time when doing a large pitch >raise. Frankly, I don't want to hear such dissonance and have never even >attempted it. But it is a sound idea and if you can actually learn to hear >the pitch you need and want to hear through all of the conflicting sounds, it >will be much to you credit to do so. You will truly amaze people. > >Good luck with it all, > >Bill Bremmer RPT >Madison, Wisconsin > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 19:56:24 -0600 >From: Avery Todd <avery@ev1.net> >Subject: Re: A question on temperament-Dale > >Bill, > > Thanks for the post. I'll definitely be exploring all this. > >Avery > >At 09:58 AM 01/14/00 -0500, you wrote: >>In a message dated 1/14/00 5:49:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, avery@ev1.net >>(Avery Todd) writes: >> >><< One of our theory professors took a class with Owen and has told >> him that Owen said he was pretty convinced that Chopin used a >> Marpurg. Comments? >> >> >> >>You can always call Owen and ask him any question you have. He is retired >>but remains active. You will often find him available and quite happy to >>answer your questions. You can find his number in the directory. >> >>Marpurg created many temperaments but there is only one which most people >>think of as "Marpurg". It is often the only other temperament that an ET >>tuner will dare to try. If you ask me, I think it was doubtful that Chopin >>used it and furthermore, I don't see the advantage it would make. However, >>you personally may like it and if the artist you tune for wants it, then you >>need to know what it should sound like. It is what is known as a Quasi Equal >>Temperament (QET), "quasi" means almost. >> >>You can create your own program for this. I personally never use FAC >>"Correction" figures, I prefer to understand and create my own temperament >>aurally, but using the SAT for the initial pitch and sometimes to prove pure >>4ths & 5ths and in the Direct Interval mode to create a 3rd of a specific >>size. When I am satisfied with the arrangement, I program it into the SAT >>and have it for all time afterwards. It works very well for me. >> >>The Marpurg is very easy to describe and to remember how to construct. Tune >>A4 and A3 as usual. Then tune F3-A3-C#4-F4-A4 contiguous 3rds exactly the >>same as you would for a regular ET. You could use the FAC program to set >>this up. Just be sure to aurally verify that it is correct. Then from each >>of the notes you have tuned so far, tune whichever 4th or 5th from that note >>which is available perfectly pure. >> >>If you have used the FAC program to tune the initial contiguous 3rds, go to >>the note C4 and press Tune. It will read on C6. Change that to C5 and press >>program. Then stop the lights on that setting and press Shift and Store to >>make the SAT start to read the 4th octave on Octave 5 rather than 6. Read >>all of your notes from C4 to B4 in octave 5, even though you haven't tuned >>them yet. You could even program in the same number or 0.0 for each one, the >>idea is to have the SAT reading the 4th octave in octave 5 rather than 6. >> >>Now, you can use the SAT to help you tune those pure 4ths and 5ths. From A3, >>you want to tune E4 a pure 5th. Set the SAT on E4 (which will be reading on >>E5, the coincident partial for these two notes). Play the note A3 and stop >>the lights. Now tune E4 to whatever that is and press SHIFT and STO. To >>tune the 4th, A3-D4, set the SAT to A3 and play the note D4 and tune it so >>that the lights stop. Then move the SAT up to D4, play the note, stop the >>lights and press SHIFT and STO to store that value. >> >>Do the same with the 4th and 5ths from C#4, F#3 and G#3, and the 4th and 5th >>from F3 and F4 which would be Bb3 and C4. Now you have only 3 notes left to >>tune. G3, B3 and D#4. You have to now do what is called Equal Beating. The >>classic way to do this is to temporarily tune G3 pure to C4. Then play the >>5th G3-D4 and notice the strong beat. Flatten G3 until the G3-C4 4th beats >>exactly the same as the G3-D4 5th. These intervals will end up beating >>(tempered) about twice as fast as they would in ET. >> >>With practice, you won't need to do the "temporarily tune" part, you will be >>able to just park the note in the place where it is an exact compromise as a >>4th and 5th. When you have the note where you want it, press SHIFT and STO. >>Do the same for the remaining two notes, B3 (form F#3 and E4) and D#4 (from >>G#3 and A#3). The results should give you 3rds and 6ths which sound >>identical to ET. But when you play the 4ths and 5ths, they will all be pure >>except for the 3 "wobbly" ones. That is essentially the compromise you are >>making. >> >>In my view, this is a much better alternative than the ET with pure 5ths. It >>produces a very "clean" sounding piano tuning with just a touch of "color". >>As you tune out your octaves, if you try to make your double octaves agree >>with your octave and 5th, you will maintain that very "clean" sound. When >>you are tuning the octave that is associated with the tempered 5th, you can >>stretch it a bit more so that the double octave has the same slight beat as >>the octave and 5th (another form of Equal Beating). >> >>This will tend to "clean up" the 3 tempered intervals so that really, the >>only "impure" sound that you will hear is in the temperament octave itself. >>Outside of it, virtually all the Slowly Beating Intervals (SBI) will either >>be pure or have a barely perceptible beat. All of your Rapidly Beating >>Intervals (RBI) will have the same smoothness expected of ET and none of the >>harshness that occurs in any of the HT's or the kind of harshness produced by >>the overly stretched octave required for the ET with pure 5ths. >> >>In my view however, Chopin is better served by a Victorian or other 19th >>Century Temperament. The extra vibrancy of the wider 3rds, 10ths and 17ths >>makes the music written in Ab and Db sound more alive. Some people are >>sensitive to this however and if this is the case, the Marpurg will be the >>temperament to use. It will be just as useful for virtually any kind of >>music as regular ET is. >> >>Good luck. >> >>Bill Bremmer RPT >>Madison, Wisconsin > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2000 02:04:58 +0000 >From: Kristinn Leifsson <istuner@islandia.is> >Subject: Re: So long and thanks for all the fish > >At 15:58 14.1.2000 -0800, you wrote: >>Kristinn Leifsson wrote: >> >>> 42 >>> >>> Kristinn >> >>Ah yes, but you never specified exactly what the question was! >> >>Rob Goodale, RPT >> >> >> > >It´s the answer of answers so I don´t think the question itself is necessary. > >Kristinn > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 21:07:49 EST >From: Tuner1956@AOL.COM >Subject: RPT Test > >Hello, >I'm interested in taking the first step to becoming a RPT. >Questions? >Does it matter what test you take first? Is there a certain amount of time >you have in-between each test (days,weeks,or months) once you pass the test >will you always retain that status? > >Tim Schloz >Associate Member > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 18:18:48 -0800 >From: "David ilvedson" <ilvey@jps.net> >Subject: steinway > >List, > >I am rebuilding a Steinway M and wanted some advice. I don't >do a lot of this, maybe one a year. > >#1...Damper felt: Where would you recommend I get it? I >typically use Laureaux & buy the Steinway style, precut stuff >from Schaff. >#2...Tuning Pins: I am considering the Diamond pins from >Pianotek. Blued is correct? I don't think I want the nickel >plated? >#3...Hammers: Should I go for Steinways? It Steinway or >Isaac. > >David I. >David Ilvedson, RPT >Pacifica, CA >ilvey@jps.net > >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2000 22:32:57 EST >From: JIMRPT@AOL.COM >Subject: Re: steinway > >In a message dated 1/14/2000 9:36:39 PM, David I. wrote: > ><<#3...Hammers: Should I go for Steinways? It Steinway or >Isaac.>> > >David as for your first two questions it is a tossup. I have had very good >and very bad luck with Laureaux damper felt and Diamond tuning pins. If you >like the look of the nickle go for it :-) > > As for the hammers, what venue is it going to be used in? Home? Restaurant? >Recital hall, Performance? Practice? Except for a died in the wool purist, >S&S hammers don't enter into my world. I am not familiar with current Issac >hammers having used my last set over six years ago. My hammer of choice would >be either Renner Blue or Encore (Abel ala Brooks LTD). >Jim Bryant (FL) > >------------------------------ > >End of pianotech-digest V2000 #46 >********************************* > >
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