jazz tuning, favoring keys not a goal

[Ola Andersson]

Dear Mr Bill Bremmer

Before I wrote this I told somebody on the list about not sending it because I
thought maybe you get angry, and so you did. This person (who is a very very
skilled person) and I (who is a very very little skilled person) have big respect
for you.  I´ve downloaded alot you´ve been writing about HT. And I hope I will
learn it some day. You have a big mission, don´t ruin it by being angry and
negative. It looks like you are mixing your personell problems  with  your
profession. It looks like your goal is to have people play on your tunings
instead of you helping people make music trough the instrument. I hope I´m wrong
though. I always read your letters. Do you have a program that can see if people
delete your letters with out reading them. I think its only in your mind. I
think anybody being on the list spending time reading 50-100 e-mails a day is
intrested in being best professional as possible. I don´t think we can mix people
on the list with slobs we all met.

Theres a lot of different tempers. I´ve been playing double bass with string
orchestra, rockband and different  folkmusic with quarternotes , all with
diffrent strech and temper you never find on any piano.
So why should a jazz pianist stick with historic temperement, his attitude isn´t
a archology (some are), he want  HT as  something to expriment with and maybe
reverse. Maybe he rather makes his own New York/gamelan temperment and ends with
a piano with 35 1/2 keys in a oktav if there is an oktav (like Xennakis ). My
friend an awarded jazzpianist uses slide on grand pianos (not on his own though).



To the others

My  point is

 On a Jazzclub piano with 20 different touring pianist between each tuning it
"have" to be ET. If there is a tuning.

My question is

Why can´t we tune a HT that favors the flat keys?
 Is there a transpose button on SAT III?

For tuners not knowing about improvisation and Jazz I want to mention that a
pianist wants to be free to go every where on the piano when ever he or she wants
it without feeling drown to any point or key because of the sounds of the tuning.

For me playing doublebass I don´t like ET either. I feel it´s out of tune . But
it works!

One more time
Excuse my bad english, Please misunderstand me right

Ola Andersson
Bergen, Norway






Billbrpt@AOL.COM skrev:

> In a message dated 4/6/99 5:47:06 AM Central Daylight Time,
> o-anders@online.no writes:
>
> << Mr. Bill Bremmer
>  It could also work with reverse well. That would make a nice HT in the key of
>  Bb, Ab and Eb (I think). Perfect for Altosaxofon and Bebop and maybe cheaper
>  to?  I better stick to ET it will end up in reverse well anyway.
>
>  Ola Andersson (The Bebop Tuner)
>  Bergen, Norway >>
>
> Certainly, many Jazz performances have occurred with a piano tuned in Reverse
> Well.  If you understood the logic of Cycle of 5ths based temperaments, you
> would understand that the goal is not necessarily to "favor" a key for a
> particular instrument.  In fact, the harshness or brightness of the keys at
> the bottom of the cycle of 5ths may be what enhances the music you enjoy.
>
> I don't see how it would be "cheaper" to tune Reverse Well.  Mistakes are
> generally thought of as wasting or costing money, not saving it.  Reverse
> Well is the wrong way to tune a piano because it causes the tonality or
> "color" of virtually all music to be misinterpreted.  It is an error that
> most often goes unrecognized by the tuner, the performer and the listener but
> that does not mean that there has been no adverse effect.  There are many
> other examples of substandard conditions and workmanship that go unrecognized
> and uncorrected.
>
> The point of learning to tune an HT even if you prefer or intend to keep
> tuning ET is that it will insure that you will recognize and avoid the
> Reverse Well error.  I see in your argument the same resentment I see from
> many others.  Your only understanding and concept is that of an Equally
> Tempered scale.  It seems so logical and normal to you that you automatically
> reject the notion of anything else.  You see no reason to learn or even try
> to understand anything other than what you have already learned and
> understood thus far.
>
> Yet, you have a theory that if you could alter the scale in a certain way, it
> might make the music sound better.  If you have such a theory, you should be
> willing to test it to prove whether it is right or wrong yet you are afraid
> to do so.  You therefore cling to the only understanding you have.  The idea
> that perhaps your knowledge and skills are flawed and that you may be making
> an error that you neither understand nor are aware of is threatening to your
> peace of mind.
>
> The answer is to learn more, not reject ideas that are outside of your
> experience and understanding.  You can easily find any number of people who
> will take your side.  There is, in fact a whole group of them who quit this
> List and created another one just because they believe that a piano should be
> tuned in ET and ET only.  They also believe that whatever they do is ET,
> regardless of how many errors or alterations to it they may make.  They will
> claim that I am the only person who ever wrote of the Reverse Well error and
> therefore, it does not exist.  If you want to find a large group of people
> who will instantly be your friend and who will say that you are right and
> that I am wrong and belligerent, join the MPT Talklist.  (I don't know how to
> join that List but I'm sure there will be someone who will be happy to tell
> you).
>
> There are others who, as soon as they see my screen name or the subject of HT
> tuning, delete my posts automatically without reading them.  They see the
> concept of Historical Temperaments as a threat and react with anger and
> resentment.  This, however, does not discourage me.  I see it only as foolish
> behavior, contrary to their own self interest.  It is as ridiculous as the
> behavior of an ostrich, a very large bird who apparently believes it cannot
> be seen by its pursuer when it hides only its head in the sand.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Bill Bremmer RPT
> Madison, Wisconsin