List:
I've been enjoying this list for a month. To respond to your poll, I attended
Perkins School of Piano Technology in Cleveland in 1974-75. Perkins taught some
questionable methods, such as using sleeves to tighten loose tuning pins (.024"
is overkill). No one in attendance ever saw the man tune a piano. He only
taught us how to temper using fourths and fifths. I learned to add thirds and
sixths later, on my own.
During the intervening years I worked for dealers in Tampa and South Florida
before moving to Southern California. I tried my hand at refinishing and
restringing. I've avoided player pianos like the plague but acutally did repair
a player when I lived for a short time in Battle Mountain, Nevada. Over time I
learned that to be proficient one needs to perform a task consistently, so doing
occasional refinish jobs was not my path. I tune and do action repairs and
regulations. The rest of the work I refer.
Had I stayed in Tampa I would probably have joined PTG. I was doing quite a bit
of work with John Ragusa who was very involved with the Guild and eventually
became president of his chapter. I even went to a state convention with him.
I'd like to now solicit the members of the list for a suggestion. I just picked
up a Yamaha studio action with many broken butt flange cords. The cords are
brown, not the usual white. I don't want to remove the hammers. At this point
I'm thinking of detaching the bridal straps and letting the whips drop to gain
access to the screw side of the flange to facilitate attaching new cords. I
suppose I'll use parachute cord (I've used it to replace grand whip cords).
Being so close to the center pin I'm afraid to use CA so I'm thinking of using
tweezers and prewetting the ends of the cord with Titebond. Any suggestions?
Any slick tool ideas? I have a feeling this could be very tedious and
straining. I'm very far-sighted so this kind of fine work is difficult if I
have to do it by eye.
Thanks
Dwight Keyes
Keyes Piano Tuning
(714) 521-1305
"I know not why it is that a man struggles his whole life to reach the pinnacle
and then throws himself into the abyss, I only know that it is so."
--Oscar Wilde, while serving two years' hard labour
Ralph Martin wrote:
> Carl
> I have every intention of keeping my reply civil. Why wouldn't I?
> You have stated your views and I think everyone's views should be welcome.
>
> While I applaud your right to relate them, I must disagree with most of what
> you've stated. I have followed both RPT's AND MPT's and found good work from
> both and work that no one would consider even passable from both.
>
> I have no quibble with either organization as I have stated in another post.
> When I was introduced to this craft, most of my cronies had either worked
> for one of the many factories we had in operation then , had completed
> school training or had worked for a few years for a large enough shop to
> sustain them while they learned. Probably with declining factory numbers in
> the US now, the situation may have changed quite a bit. My original
> statement, however, I'll have to stick to regarding men who are around the
> same age as myself.
>
> I also think it takes more than a school, factory or guild to make a good
> technician. I think there is some native ability involved also.
>
> I would be very interested in a poll taken directly from this list,
> including the factory technicians that sometimes contribute information, to
> learn how the majority learned their craft. It could prove to be very
> revealing. I'll begin with myself and let others add their source(s) for
> learning.
>
> 8 years with the Rippen piano company in Ireland
> 4 years with Lifmann-Turrilli in Providence, R.I.
> The factory is self explanitory. I worked there to keep alive while
> attending medical school.
>
> Lifmann-Turrilli was one of the largest piano rebuilding facilities in th
> US. They occupied 5 floors in a very large city building.
>
> How about the rest of you folk?
>
> Ralph Martin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl Root <rootfamily@erols.com>
> To: pianotech@ptg.org <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 6:27 PM
> Subject: Re: Master Piano Tuner
>
> >Ralph Martin:
> >I'm fairly new to the list. I have no personal ax to grind with you,
> >but I have to respond to your recent posts:
> >
> >> Most of the folk attended either a school or worked for a piano shop or
> >> factory or learned from another tech.
> >
> >Many, I dare say most, technicians have no formal training. They are
> >self taught. . . . . or are trained through PTG chapter tech sessions
> >and regional and national seminars.
> >
> >> The truth is...you DON'T know if the tech truly knows what he is
> doing....so
> >> testing , at least, solves part of that problem. The other organization
> >> simply assumes that the tech has to be adequate enough to have earned a
> >> living at his craft if he has been gainfully employed in the craft.
> >
> >I strongly disagree with this assumption. There are many tuners, mostly
> >old, but some fairly young, who have not kept up with changing standards
> >and would never be able to pass even a simple test even though they have
> >made a living in this profession for many decades.
> >
> >> While we all run across a hacker once in a while, for the most part I
> think
> >> most techs do a pretty fair job regardless of which organization they
> belong
> >> to or even IF they belong to an organization....otherwise, they don't
> seem
> >> to survive for very long.
> >
> >They do survive. Mostly because many consumers have fairly low
> >performance expectations. I have followed many tuners in the field
> >during my career and have come to believe that maybe half the
> >'professionals' have no idea how to set a temperament.
> >(yes, you can tell).
> >
> >(Ralph, I assume this is your quote, too?)
> >> >> I should probably add my two cents on this subject since I am also a
> >> member
> >> >> of the MPT(master piano technicians of america) as well as being a
> member
> >> >> ofPTG.
> >> >>
> >> >> As you are well aware, anyone can be a member of PTG, whether a
> >> >> tuner/technician or not. Should you desire to be registered as a RPT,
> you
> >> >> must be tested by some members of your peers to see if you are able to
> >> >> conform to their requirements.
> >> >>
> >> >> The MPT, on the other hand do not have any novices in their
> organization.
> >> >> The members are not tested, but have to furnish proof of school
> training
> >> >> and/or apprenticeship plus a verifiable work history as a
> >> tuner/technician.
> >
> >Work history does not guarantee anything. Neither does a certificate
> >from a school. I'm not knocking schools. Only that they should be
> >viewed only as an introduction to the craft, no more. Many graduates of
> >these schools have not passed RPT exams on their the first attempt.
> >
> >> >> I do not use the MPT designation after my name on this list simply out
> of
> >> >> courtesy since this is a PTG list.
> >
> >Many MPT members use it their advertising, however. Any implication of
> >certification must be backed up by examination or it is bogus. I wonder
> >how many on this list would hire a professional service person who
> >represented himself in this way?
> >
> >>>> There are excellent and skilled
> >> >> technicians in both organizations and I have seen the opposite in both
> >> >> organizations.
> >
> >I am sorry to say that in my 25 years of exposure to others in the
> >profession, the percentage of skilled technicians is much higher in PTG
> >than MPT.
> >
> >I'm ready for the flames. I'm only relating what I beleive and what
> >nearly all of my peers also believe. Those who would defend the
> >existence of MPT might first want to address the issue of what the
> >average consumer might think when they discover that a "Master Piano
> >Tuner" is deemed to be a suitable title conferred by an organization to
> >all members who have done nothing more than take some entry level
> >courses and/or survive in this business.
> >
> >Carl
> >
> >I've enjoyed the recent peace on this list. Keep it civil. :-)
> >
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