bonjour,je ne sais pas pourquoi vous m'envoyez tout ca,mais je vous prie de bien vouloir arreter de m'en envoyer!je sais pas ce que c'est et j'en ai rien a foutre!!!! hi,i don't know why you send me that,but i would like you to stop it please! i don't know what is it,and i don't want to know it.I'm fed up with your messages!!!!!!! ---------- > De : pianotech-digest <owner-pianotech-digest@ptg.org> > A : pianotech-digest@ptg.org > Objet : pianotech-digest V1997 #824 > Date : jeudi 21 mai 1998 04:33 > > > pianotech-digest Thursday, May 21 1998 Volume 1997 : Number 824 > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 00:01:50 -0400 > From: Bill Ballard <yardbird@sover.net> > Subject: Poll (Re: Master Piano Tuner) > > On Wed, 20 May, "Ralph Martin" <rmartinjr@email.msn.com> wrote: > >I would be very interested in a poll taken directly from this list, > >including the factory technicians that sometimes contribute information, to > >learn how the majority learned their craft. It could prove to be very > >revealing. I'll begin with myself and let others add their source(s) for > >learning. > > > >How about the rest of you folk? > > Graduated from North Bennet Street Industrial School's 5-1/2 month > PTechnology class, at that time a very rudimentary introduction. From > there headed into self emplyment, and the learning continued, from guild > members and meetings, and not the least, the pianos themselves. > > It would have been a lonely and baffling trip without the PTG. My early > heroes (in chronological order): Bill Garlick, Steve Jellen, Wil Snyder, > LaRoy Edwards and Cliff Geers. > > Bill Ballard, RPT > New Hampshire Chapter, PTG > > "No one builds the *perfect* piano, you can only remove the obstacles to > that perfection during the building." ...........LaRoy Edwards > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 00:24:02 EDT > From: DGPEAKE <DGPEAKE@aol.com> > Subject: Free stuff > > Dear List, > > My wife emailed this to me to pass along. You may want to take advantage of > this offer. > > Dave Peake, RPT > Portland, OR > > > >>>>>>> Subject: PLEASE READ! YOU'LL BE GLAD YOU DID! > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Please read and forward to as many friends as possible...I've checked > >>>>>>> this out > >>>>>>> and it's not a BS chain letter or something...Microsoft is giving away > >>>>>>> Win98 & $$$ if this reaches 1,000 people...duplicate entries don't > >>>>>>> count, > >>>>>>> though...So, > >>>>>>> please help & pass on...thanx > >>>>>>> here you go!!! > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> TO:*MASSAOL@aol.com <mailto:MASSAOL@aol.com> > >>>>>>> FROM:*GatesBeta@microsoft.com > >>>>>>> <mailto:GatesBeta@microsoft.com> > >>>>>>> ATTACH:*Tracklog@microsoft.com/Track883432/~TraceActive/On.html > >>>>>>> <mailto:Tracklog@microsoft.com/Track883432/~TraceActive/On.html > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hello Everyone, > >>>>>>> And thank you for signing up for my Beta Email Tracking Application > >>>>>>> or (BETA) for short. My name is Bill Gates. Here at Microsoft > >>>>>>> we have just compiled an e-mail tracing program that tracks everyone > >>>>>>> to > >>>>>>> whom this message is forwarded to. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> It does this through an unique IP (Internet Protocol) address log > >>>>>>> book database. We are experimenting with this and need your help. > >>>>>>> Forward this to everyone you know and if it reaches 1000 people, > >>>>>>> everyone on the list will receive $1000 and a copy of Windows98 at my > >>>>>>> expense. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Enjoy. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Note: Duplicate entries will not be counted. You will be notified > >>>>>>> by email with further instructions once this email has reached 1000 > >>>>>>> people. Windows98 will not be shipped until it has been released to > >>>>>>> the general public. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Your friend, > >>>>>>> Bill Gates & The Microsoft Development Team. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:24:49 -0600 > From: "Joe & Penny Goss" <imatunr@primenet.com> > Subject: Re: to master or not to master > > Cyrillus, > If a piano is worth only the value of holding pictures, and the customer > can get some use of the instrument if it will hold pitch, does it not make > $ cents to do a repair that will be the last rites for that instrument? > Joe > > - ---------- > > From: Dmsaerts <Dmsaerts@aol.com> > > To: pianotech@ptg.org > > Subject: Re: to master or not to master > > Date: Wednesday, May 20, 1998 9:52 PM > > > > Dear Frank Cahill, > > There are many ways to help a customer. I help customers all the time and > > every time for the past 18 years. However I have never seen the need to > resort > > to the unconventional techniques described earlier. The best possible job > is > > always the one that outlives the customer who owns the piano. It will be > the > > cheapest in the long run. America is used to payment plans. Give a "poor" > > customer a break this way. I bought my home piano for $50 > > It holds tune and is 75 year old. If you want to help a customer sell > them one > > of those pianos that hold tune, trade their piano and rebuilt it > conventional. > > $100 for a CA job is by the way far from what I call a bargain nor is it > > called helping. Many technicians blame bad maintenance on the ignorance > of the > > customer, but it is more likely the tuner/technician who is to blame. The > > customer is responsible for the frequency of the maintenance, the tuner > for > > the quality of the work. Part of your letter ones again proves the need > for > > apprentice ships and the instruction of conventional repair methods. > About > > university budgets, some are good some are non existent. UNT is pretty > good. > > > > Cyrillus Aerts I.P.T. > > University of North Texas > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 22:35:25 +0000 > From: atonal@planet.eon.net > Subject: Re: to master or not to master > > Cyril & list, > > > > > To the list of piano technicians who master their skill, > > AS long as "repairing" a sound board with epoxy, gluing the tuning pins with > > CA, voicing the hammers with Lipton tea are standard respected technicians > > skills. It doesn't matter what you put behind your name. > > Some valid points are raised herein, but also, without a unifying > structure such as PTG, no set of standards of 'good' repairs would > exist. Individual manufacturers vary widely on service and regulation > technique, and there is no standard for repairing and rebuilding > vintage pianos other than shop experience and input from other > technicians. I do a fair amount of restoration/rebuilding, and I > state with some certianty that there is no one 'lost art' we are > trying to preserve. Manufacturers then, as now, were trying to > construct instruments that varied widely in quality of construction, > based on market appeal and economics. The bulk of common knowledge is > distilled down from technicians talking to each other and exchanging > information, mostly, these days, through an organization such as the > PTG. > > The poor repair technique examples you have listed are eclipsed > regularly on this list and in PTG publications by solid, documented > repair and service techniques. They are also for situations that > are above basic repair and regulation practise that PTG tests for > in its examination processes. When the accepted repair (new > soundboard, pinblock, etc.) is not feasable (and we have to admit, > professionals or no, that this happens more than we can control...) > then 'repairs' or fixes that fall outside the normal scope of > accepted piano repair will be utilized. (try and get two or three > technicians to agree on proper repair techniques for _anything_!) One > of the strengths of this list is that these repair techniques are > tested, documented, and argued! I don't personally agree with two of > the three repairs listed above (e-mail me if you want to chat about > which two...) and there are others who don't as well, but at least > they are tested. And argued, and thought about. None of the > above mentioned examples are accepted practise by most > technicians, and you can't say that because RPT's thought of it, > it is approved of by the PTG. Yet, they served in sticky situations, > and allowed the technicians to think outside their training. Doing a > poor repair because that's all you were taught to do is no excuse to > continue that technique. This goes for anyone with any intitials > behind their name. > > A technician that > > respects his or her profession repairs and is able to repair sound board with > > sound board, tuning pins with tuning pins, pin block with pin block, bushing > > with bushing, sticking center pin with non sticking center pin, hammers with > > hammers, tuning with ears, voicing with needles (some manufacturers in their > > inability to make good hammers made us believe that lacquer creates a better > > tone, therefore lacquer is an unfortunate skill necessary for those pianos) > > The practice of quick fixing with materials not original to the piano don't > > require the specific skills of a piano technician. In my opinion the point of > > having an organized guild is to protect and instruct an old skill and being a > > watch dog and aid to the manufacturing industry. > > While this is a noble aim, is is completely ignorant of how > technicial organizations and manufacturers interact. The > manufacturers will continue to build pianos that cause technicians to > twitch and writhe. They are building for the paying public, after > all. The function of an organized guild is to set a measure of > professional standards and technicial competency for its members. > That in itself is a huge job. More than many other professional > organizations do. Acting as a watchdog on piano manufacturing is > simply not within their mandate for their members, or within the > realm of knowledge of the elected officers. You don't see the AMA > telling major pharmecutical companies to hold back on new drug > testing because it will cut into their business! Manufacturers have a > good representation of technicians who work for them in all aspects > of piano manufacture. I've met many of them. Many are RPT's. However, > the PTG's job is not to tell manufacturers how to build pianos. > Overall, there are few among the guild who have enough knowledge of > piano construction to knowledgeably tell manufacturers what should > and shouldn't be done > > Let me give an example of the > > watch dog function. When Steinway introduced Teflon it first appeared to be a > > good innovation. But when it was not accepted by their own factory in Hamburg > > and numerous problems were reported within the first two years of it's > > introduction in the US, the PTG should have rang the alarm bell at the door > > steps of the NY factory. Twenty years later? Send your bike to the piano > > technician and he will make it fly. > > Even if the bells were ringing (and I'm told they were), would this > have changed the results? No, historically, they had to adapt and > change, as is what happened when they reverted to traditional > bushings. . You mention the teflon bushings, but what of > the Kawai ABS action parts? If traditional standards were adhered to, > they wouldn't have been put into production. Yet, I consistently find > they work well, and other technicians have found the same. Piano > construction is and will continue to be largely a hit and miss affair > when it comes to innovation. Other innovations, Baldwin Corfam leather replacement, has > been changed as well, to a different synthetic (Ecsaine, thanks Del), > which has worked so well in the last 18 years that it has become > standard on all Baldwin verticals. Works well, no deer had to die. My > idea of a good innovation. > > > Essentially my ramble boils down to this: I don't credit the PTG > with everything I know, but I give it credit for what it has done to > increase my knowledge. Few other technicial organizations can make > such a claim. > > PS. Flying bicycles are easily achieved with a good trebuchet. > > > Cyrillus Aerts I.P.T. (independent piano technician) > > University of North Texas > > > > p.s. Frans deze is voor jou en de mazzel. > > > > > Rob Kiddell, > Registered Piano Technician, PTG > atonal@planet.eon.net > > "Server's poor response > Not quick enough for browser > Time out, Plum Blossom" > > - -Netscape haiku error message > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 21:56:08 > From: Susan Kline <skline@proaxis.com> > Subject: Re: Free stuff (off topic) > > At 12:24 AM 5/21/98 EDT, Dave wrote: > >Dear List, > > > >My wife emailed this to me to pass along. You may want to take advantage of > >this offer. > > > >Dave Peake, RPT > >Portland, OR > > Sorry, Dave. This leaves me highly sceptical! > > >>>>>>>> My name is Bill Gates. Here at Microsoft > >>>>>>>> we have just compiled an e-mail tracing program that tracks everyone > >>>>>>>> to whom this message is forwarded to. > .... > >>>>>>>> Forward this to everyone you know and if it reaches 1000 people, > >>>>>>>> everyone on the list will receive $1000 and a copy of Windows98 at my > >>>>>>>> expense. > > and I'm the Queen of Bavaria ... > > You can email me from Windows 98 or use 32 cents from the $1000 for a > sneering snail mail if I'm wrong ... > > Susan > > > > > > Susan Kline > P.O. Box 1651 > Philomath, OR 97370 > skline@proaxis.com > > "I need more proof, before I can be absolutely certain that I do not exist." > -- Ashleigh Brilliant > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:19:40 -0700 > From: Tom Cole <tcole@cruzio.com> > Subject: Yamaha Music Desk Felt > > Maxpiano wrote: > > I need a > > replacement for the strip of material (felt?) that the music sits on, on a G2 > > walnut. Other pianos I have worked on have leather here, but this one (a > > teacher's piano) appears to be felt, and it is worn through. Can you give me > > the part number or description for ordering? > > > > Assuming I can order the material from Yamaha, how do I remove the old > > material? What glue was used? > > > Bill, > > I recently replaced the felt on a Yamaha music desk. I got the > replacement felt from Yamaha; it comes in _3_ pieces and will fit any > Yamaha tray. > > I did the work in the field, without having any idea of how I was going > to accomplish the task. Using a chisel as a scraper, I got rid of all > the old felt and glue (sorry, I don't know what kind of glue). Then, I > trimmed the new pieces of felt to suitable widths and lengths and glued > into place using white glue. The hard part is getting the two joints to > be invisible. > > It turned out okay but I would not do it that way again. The only reason > to use the Yamaha felt is because it's the right color. But I think > leather is a better, more durable choice, especially where there is a > lot of music traffic. Also, you can make it a one piece installation. > > You also might want to use a more technicianly glue, like PVC-E. :-) > > Tom > > - -- > Thomas A. Cole RPT > Santa Cruz, CA > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 22:57:22 -0800 > From: Larry Fisher <larryf@pacifier.com> > Subject: Yamaha P2E > > All the rain around here affects people in different ways. > > I tuned a Yo Mama P2E > that tuned up ever so nicely. > Uupon finishing my task > I played and went "GASP" > as the sound came forth KAH BLEWY!!! > > It sounded quite nice, no fooling, > though small, compact, and not gooey, > I press on the keys, > and it makes sounds that please, > I can't seem to leave this P2E. > > > It's getting quite late, aw phooey! > I wanna play more! So sue me! > With all panels removed > and all notes in their groove, > I played to excess, that P2E. > > > My poetry is exceeded by my knowledge of quantum physics. I remember my 6th > grade teacher flunking me in the subject. What a jerk!!! > > Lar > > Larry Fisher RPT > specialist in players, retrofits, and other complicated stuff > phone 360-256-2999 or email larryf@pacifier.com > http://www.pacifier.com/~larryf/ (revised 10/96) > Beau Dahnker pianos work best under water > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 23:48:07 -0700 > From: Tom Cole <tcole@cruzio.com> > Subject: Re: Poll (Re: Master Piano Tuner) > > On Wed, 20 May, "Ralph Martin" <rmartinjr@email.msn.com> wrote: > >I would be very interested in a poll taken directly from this list, > >including the factory technicians that sometimes contribute information, to > >learn how the majority learned their craft. It could prove to be very > >revealing. I'll begin with myself and let others add their source(s) for > >learning. > > > >How about the rest of you folk? > > During the last half of 1971, I spent occasional weekends with a friend > of my father's, a non-PTG piano tuner in Los Angeles area, learning the > rudiments of tuning and repair; practiced tuning on an old upright at > home. > > In 1972, started tuning pianos on the side (until I found out the pins > were on the front! <g>). Began my business in Santa Cruz in '74, > becoming full time after about 4 years. Became technician for UCSC, > local community college and city schools by 1979. Doing multiple > classrooms/practice rooms was very useful for getting rid of > time-consuming bad habits. > > In the early 80s, I was invited to CA State Convention (San Jose). > Joined PTG in '87, became RTT about 1 year later. > > Looking back, this was really the hard way to learn anything. For 15 > years, after the initial 6 months, I never talked to anyone about the > profession, never went to any schools or seminars, never read any books > about piano tuning. Every piano was an opportunity to learn something > new. I was very much The Lone Ranger and thought I could teach myself > every step of the way. I was very fortunate to never have gotten into > any expensive trouble. > > The other dumb thing I did was to quit my day job on 1/1/72. I, > therefore, had to supplement my very meager piano tuning income by doing > auto repair, handyman jobs, carpentry - anything that I had a little > experience in, I'd do. > > So, I've learned very well how not to become a piano technician. And, > thanks to PTG, I've learned from some very great technicians how to > improve my skills. > - -- > Thomas A. Cole RPT > Santa Cruz, CA > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 02:25:39 -0500 > From: Gregory Torres <Tunapiana@adisfwb.com> > Subject: Re: Free stuff > > Dave, > > I believe this is a bogus chain letter. And besides, if it were for real would you > really want Bill Gates to be able to track you via e-mail ???? Just a weird > thought :0) > > Regards, > Greg Torres > > DGPEAKE wrote: > > > Dear List, > > > > My wife emailed this to me to pass along. You may want to take advantage of > > this offer. > > > > Dave Peake, RPT > > Portland, OR > > > > >>>>>>> Subject: PLEASE READ! YOU'LL BE GLAD YOU DID! > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Please read and forward to as many friends as possible...I've checked > > >>>>>>> this out > > >>>>>>> and it's not a BS chain letter or something...Microsoft is giving away > > >>>>>>> Win98 & $$$ if this reaches 1,000 people...duplicate entries don't > > >>>>>>> count, > > >>>>>>> though...So, > > >>>>>>> please help & pass on...thanx > > >>>>>>> here you go!!! > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> TO:*MASSAOL@aol.com <mailto:MASSAOL@aol.com> > > >>>>>>> FROM:*GatesBeta@microsoft.com > > >>>>>>> <mailto:GatesBeta@microsoft.com> > > >>>>>>> ATTACH:*Tracklog@microsoft.com/Track883432/~TraceActive/On.html > > >>>>>>> <mailto:Tracklog@microsoft.com/Track883432/~TraceActive/On.html > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Hello Everyone, > > >>>>>>> And thank you for signing up for my Beta Email Tracking Application > > >>>>>>> or (BETA) for short. My name is Bill Gates. Here at Microsoft > > >>>>>>> we have just compiled an e-mail tracing program that tracks everyone > > >>>>>>> to > > >>>>>>> whom this message is forwarded to. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> It does this through an unique IP (Internet Protocol) address log > > >>>>>>> book database. We are experimenting with this and need your help. > > >>>>>>> Forward this to everyone you know and if it reaches 1000 people, > > >>>>>>> everyone on the list will receive $1000 and a copy of Windows98 at my > > >>>>>>> expense. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Enjoy. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Note: Duplicate entries will not be counted. You will be notified > > >>>>>>> by email with further instructions once this email has reached 1000 > > >>>>>>> people. Windows98 will not be shipped until it has been released to > > >>>>>>> the general public. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Your friend, > > >>>>>>> Bill Gates & The Microsoft Development Team. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 00:16:48 -0700 > From: Delwin D Fandrich <pianobuilders@olynet.com> > Subject: Re: Pulsating string > > Not all of them, Jim. > > I've found that the most common cause of this type of string malady is a "kinked" string. > This far down in the scale it's common enough that this is what I'd check out first. You > can't always see this, but if you run your fingers along its length you'll probably find a > spot where the stringer bent, twisted or kinked the string. > > Regards, > > Del > > - ---------------------------------- > > Jim Coleman, Sr. wrote: > > > Hi Arlie: > > > > There are several things which can cause a "pulsating sound from a plain > > steel string. They all have to do with contact points. The termination at > > the bridge is the most usual location. You have stated that it is solid at > > the bridge. A question may be asked, "Is the bridge pin solid?" "Does the > > string groove on the bridge surface extend beyond or in front of the bridge > > pin?" Those are the usual problems at that end. Sometimes an over sized > > bridge pin will solve this problem. > > > > Strings can have an insecure termination at the Agraffe or V-bar. The better > > rebuilders replace the Agraffes during rebuilding to avoid that problem. But > > problems can also exist due to irregular shape of the string. As a > > string is pulled up and down thru the V-bar, a flat can be formed on the > > string. Sometimes this flat may rotate slightly at its termination and cause > > what sounds like "pulsating". The other cause of insecurity at the V-bar is > > if the V-bar surface has a flat spot, where the string in motion bears upon > > the front edge of the flat when it is up and it bears upon the back edge of > > the flat when the string is in its downward excursion. Fixing the > > termination surface is the obvious answer in this case. Replacing the string > > is the other answer. Of course, any time you change a string, you bring in > > the insecurity of tuning for several months. > > > > The third place where problems of this nature can occur is along the > > speaking length of the string. This can be a drop of glue on the string, or > > contact of the string with the damper wire. A string moves in a vertically > > oriented elliptical motion. This vertical motion can oscillate back and > > forth over a few degrees range so that it might contact a damper wire only > > two or three times a second. It is simple to check visually for any damper > > wire contact, just move the damper head away from the string and see if > > the "pulsating" stops. If so, you need to adjust the strings or the damper > > wire. Also visually inspect for any foreign matter on the speaking length > > of the string. > > > > Jim Coleman, Sr. > > > > On Tue, 19 May 1998, Arlie D. Rauch wrote: > > > > > The client has a very nicely rebuilt 85-year-old Hazelton Bros. grand. I > > > tuned it last fall and again recently. She let me know a week later that > > > she was not satisfied with the tuning. So I went back. > > > > > > The culprit was a pulse in the left string of the first unison immediately > > > above the bass/tenor break. It developed that she really was satisfied > > > with the tuning, but she was hearing that pulse. Apparently this problem > > > has been there before, but she thinks that last fall the pulse was gone > > > after I tuned the piano. > > > > > > The string is firmly against the bridge. The other half of the string > > > which loops back to form the second string of the unison has a clear, > > > straight tone. > > > > > > Any suggestions as to the cause? Any suggestions as to the solution? > > > > > > Is it possible that tuning the piano to A-441 might have eliminated the > > > pulse last fall? Now it was tuned to A-440, both times per her > > > instructions. > > > > > > Thanks in advance. I may not see the piano again until the end of summer. > > > > > > Arlie > > > > > > Arlie D. Rauch > > > Glendive, MT > > > > > > http://members.Tripod.com/~Turbooster > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 02:33:24 -0500 > From: JTTUNER@webtv.net (james turner) > Subject: Re: pianotech-digest V1997 #823 > > With the recent discussion about the PTG, RPT, MPT and taking exams, I > was wondering if other keyboard professionals have a guild and exams to > take in order to be qualified to practice in their field. I am > referring to pipe organ technicians, electronic organ technicians, reed > organ technicians and accordion repairmen. If an RPT had one of these > guys in their home for repairs, what kind of "proof" would you ask of > them before you allowed them to work on say your organ or accordion? > > And what about piano teachers? Most of the ones I know do not have any > degrees or diplomas whatsoever, yet they still teach piano. Should all > piano teachers strive to get a BA in music before they are permitted to > teach private lessons and take the public's money? > > Wondering minds want to know......... > > ------------------------------ > > End of pianotech-digest V1997 #824 > ********************************** >
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