Thanks, Jim: I'll do some investigating and then - perhaps - ? I find wiggly benches all over the place, too. What is the full name of BH where you get your hinges? Thanks- Dan Hallett, Jr. RPT pianoman wrote: > > OK, here goes. > Why is there a bottom in benches. To hold music, yes, but more importantly > to add to the structural rigidity of the bench. Without a bench bottom > solidly attached, all the destroying forces are working on the mortises > holding the legs to the rails or the corner bracket attachment screws > trying to split out the rails. > The first thing I do is to reach down and check all 4 sides of the bottom > on any bench I sit on. If any are loose I say to the client, You did know > your bench bottom is coming out, didn't you? This sets up the spiel. > When I first started building benches I was cutting a dado around the > inside rail of the bench to accept the bottom which would float in the > space. This looked really good but added nothing to the rigidity scenario. > I have come now to make all bottoms to fit in a rabbet cut out of the > bottom of the rails. I remove the old bottom, which 9 out of 10 times is > 1/8" Masonite stapled on. This is doomed to fail and almost everyone does > this, including Steinway benches, I replaced 1 about 2 weeks ago. I know > that the dealers don't normally get their Steinway benches from Steinway > but I have yet to see a genuine Steinway built bench, perhaps there is no > such thing. > I check the rabbet for broken nails, staples and anything else that would > screw up my saw blade and recut the rabbet to 1/4" thick to match my 1/4" > birch, solid core plywood replacement. It is important that the bottom > surface of the bottom be even with the level of the edge of the rail. I > take the old bottom and compare it to the opening that it was supposed to > fit in snug. I usually find it was cut too short in both width and length. > I use the old bottom as a general guide adding about 1/4" on each > dimension. The goal is to have no space between the bottom of the rails > and the edge of the new plywood bottom. > After rough cutting, I fine tune the size by easing off a little of the > amount till it fits exactly. I don't worry about expansion because plywood > is pretty stable as far as changing dimension with high humidity. I have a > fixture on my old Jig saw. I use this jig saw, and old Craftsman still > with the original leather belt, to cut out the places where the legs come > through. It is important visually to have all four of these the same and > this fixture controls depth, and width. With that done I test fit again. > If all is well I put a bead of glue around the entire perimeter of the > rails and place in the bottom. I have an electric nailer which shoot 3/4" > brads and I place them about every 4 inches. This pulls the plywood up > flush with the shelf of the rabbet and tightens all uniformly down. I then > drill pilot holes through the plywood into the shelf, usually 4 on the long > sides and 2 on the short sides, and I use #8 5/8" washer headed Robertson > screws and tighten them all down with my square drive screwdriver. I > pickup any glue squeeze out from the top and bottom surfaces and allow to > dry overnight. > In the morning that bottom is as taut as a soundboard which you can tell > by knocking on it. If it were a new bench I would have refinished the > bottom, both sides, to match the rest of the bench. On just replacements I > don't, but if asked, I charge extra for that. Price is $75. for the > replacement which I now guarantee for the length of my life. That bottom > ain't goin anywhere, folks. As I said, I can do them in about 30 minutes > once I am in the shop and it is good busy work that doesn't take a lot of > brains, just up my alley. > James Grebe > R.P.T. of the P.T.G. from St. Louis, MO. USA, Earth > Piano Service and Piano Periperals > Creator of Hardwood PLTR's and Custom Piano Benches > pianoman@inlink.com If I wake up in the morning, it WILL be a great > day! > > ---------- > > From: Dan M. Hallett, Jr. <dhalle@toolcity.net> > > To: pianotech@ptg.org > > Subject: Re: World-Class Junk of Susans muses (rambling) > > Date: Thursday, July 09, 1998 8:09 PM > > > > Dear James: > > > > How do you design the replacement bench bottom? Would be very interested > > to see a post on this facet of your business. > > > > Dan Hallett, Jr. RPT > > > > pianoman wrote: > > > > > > Hi Susan and all, > > > Your good article brought out several things that have been problems > for > > > all of us. Consider case parts removed. There is no best place. If > you > > > lean them they can fall, if you lay them on the floor they can scratch > the > > > floor but also someone can trip over them. If you lay them on a couch > will > > > the client like that? I have one client that makes sure I put the > music > > > desk of her Yamaha on a rug not her marble floor. > > > On the subject of taking off shoes: I am not the most graceful > person in > > > the world and I don't know about you, but it is slippery in your > socking > > > feet, downright dangerous. On holes in socks, I try to be as careful > as I > > > can, as that is why I only purchase black socks. I never have to worry > > > about matching them in the drawer, I just dump-em-in. The other thing > is > > > maybe some of you did a lot of barefooting when you were younger. I > > > didn't. I hardly ever go barefoot at home even in the bedroom. > Another > > > thing is that I find it painful to try to depress the pedals to use > them or > > > test them out. This doesn't even approach the problem of removing an > > > action and keybed on the slippery floor. > > > I asked one of my (Asian) used to be Oriental, clients what was > the > > > objection to Oriental and why Asian was preferred. She really didn't > have > > > a good answer in my opinion for that. I do not use "Oriental" in a > > > derogatory manner but I can't really tell the difference between > Korean, > > > Japanese, or Chinese. Is that bad? To me Asian should refer to the > > > continent and the countries that make it up including India, Pakistan > and , > > > others. Supposedly one of the complaints other countries have is that > on > > > American maps, North America is in the center and the rest of the world > is > > > equally divided right and left. I can understand that some. But then > I > > > asked one of these people how the maps looked in their country and they > > > informed me that their continent was in the middle and the rest of the > > > world equally on each side. If that is true, so what. > > > On benches, one of the first things I do is feel down and see if the > bottom > > > is secure on what I am sitting on. I do this for a couple of reasons. > I > > > have a side business of bench repair and building and have found that > much > > > of the rigidity of the bench comes from a secure bottom. When it is > loose > > > it puts all the pressure on the leg glue joints and corner brackets. > > > Tomorrow I am taking my second new piano bench bottom replacement back > to > > > the client. I install a new plywood bottom that I glue, brad, and > screw > > > in place. I guarantee it for the length of my life. I have gotten > quite > > > good at this repair and can do it in just about 30 minutes. I charge $ > 75 > > > for it and can do it in just about 30 minutes in the shop. That makes > $150 > > > extra this week above tuning and it adds up over a period of time and > gives > > > me play time with my tools and wood along with making a stronger bench > and > > > usable again for music storage. If other parts of the bench are > broken, it > > > just adds up the total to repair. To me this is just as good as > installing > > > Damp-Chasers money wise and I enjoy the work. Any other thoughts on > the > > > socking feet slippery problem? Sorry to have rambled. > > > James Grebe > > > R.P.T. of the P.T.G. from St. Louis, MO. USA, Earth > > > Piano Service and Piano Periperals > > > Creator of Hardwood PLTR's and Custom Piano Benches > > > pianoman@inlink.com If I wake up in the morning, it WILL be a > great > > > day! minute in the shop
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