Thanks for all the responses to this question. I have talked with Del about it so he's aware of what I'm trying to achieve. His suggestions were Ronsen Wurzen or Abel Naturals. These Bacons do have a some lacquer in the top octave but that's it. I have added lead to the hammers to get to a #9 (top med) SW. I have been very hesitant to add lacquer to the hammers because when I first put the board in I had the old action still intact so I knew from listening to these older hammers with the new board that lacquer is not what the board needs. But I do think more heft might help. I will try the clip trick on the shanks to give it a test. The boom issue is really most noticeable in the mid-range. The bass, though different than a stock bass in that it doesn't have the growly edge, is good. Octaves 6 and 7 are well within the normal range of expectations. Part of the issue is the perception of the pianists, who have the worst seat in the house, especially for this piano. I've listened to just a couple two-piano concerts with these two D's (one is an older stock D that keeps on kicking). Invariably the pianist at this rebuilt D feels like they have to pound it to be heard, because THEY can't hear their own piano. But we out in the hall are saying, WHOA NELLY, what're you trying to do, blast us through the wall? The piano does project, only the feedback the pianist receives is atypical from what they are accustomed to hearing. Therefore, it is difficult to get anyone to play the damn thing. Along this line I have noticed that the key compliance in the bass is more noticeable after the new board was installed. The keys are the same, but the perception of tone output per unit of input energy is different. I'll be addressing that issue too. I have gone back and forth hundreds of times between our two D's trying to figure out how to articulate what I am hearing. I like both of them, but truth be told, I would like more "boom" in the mid-range. I'm not quite sure how to describe what I mean by that, but it is apparent immediately, at any dynamic level. If you listen to a stock 7 foot piano (assuming well voiced) in the mid-range (F2-F5) at mp to mf and then listen to a stock 9-foot at the same dynamic levels, that's the kind of difference. The 9-footer has more "presence." What I don't know also is just how that is achieved when designing a belly. I don't have any objection to the stock sound one can often get out of a S&S D. The reason I went with a RC&S board is that it makes more sense mechanically (to me) to rely on designed-in rib support for the board, rather than rely on ambient RH for crown. The question remains for me though is whether the kind of tone I like is possible with a board that is RC&S. Of course that is not the only change that was made to the belly. There is the longer bass cut-off. What if the board were made the same but with the original cut-off? What would it sound like? Same question with the treble fish, and the string scale alterations. Too many questions, too little time. Thanks again. Alan -- Alan McCoy, RPT Eastern Washington University amccoy at ewu.edu ________________________________ From: David Love <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> Reply-To: CAUTlist <caut at ptg.org> Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2010 10:50:19 -0700 To: CAUTlist <caut at ptg.org> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Hammers Which makes me think that they must have gotten "lacquered up" as the Bacon felt while adequate to produce a bright enough tone on that belly shouldn't have gotten too bright or strident on its own. David Love www.davidlovepianos.com -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Fred Sturm Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 10:16 AM To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] Hammers That is what I remember. As I recall, I asked Del, and that's what he told me. Of course, memory is a shifty thing, but my surprise made it stick, so I feel reasonably sure that is what I was told. It was a prototype, I believe, first one made, so perhaps in production they changed. Fred On Jun 25, 2010, at 11:00 AM, David Love wrote: > Are you sure it had Ronsen Bacon? The early iterations of those > pianos had > Abel hammers and they were too hard. I spent some time out at the > factory > with Del sampling some other hammers including Ronsen Bacon and Ronsen > Wurzen but I don't think they ever put either one of them into > production. > Both he and I liked the Bacon hammer the best on that piano and that > was > unadulterated (no lacquer) and no play in time. They had an Abel > hammer > made for them which, at the time, was about as soft a pressing as > Abel was > able to do and it was still too much for that piano. The powers > that be > opted to maintain the Abel hammers. The issue seemed to be defining > who > they were in competition with for market share. I think Del felt > that this > piano was to be an alternative to a Steinway style tone, darker and > warmer. > The folks at Walter (at least the marketing folks--I think Charles > and Del > were on the same page) felt that Yamaha was their competition, > sadly. The > designs are very different in terms of scale tensions and accompanying > soundboard weighting. The belly is very light and a soft hammer > does a > terrific job with it. A harder hammer (or a lacquered Bacon hammer > perhaps) > would not show as well. > > David Love > www.davidlovepianos.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf > Of Fred > Sturm > Sent: Friday, June 25, 2010 8:13 AM > To: caut at ptg.org > Subject: Re: [CAUT] Hammers > > On Jun 24, 2010, at 8:47 PM, David Love wrote: > >> It's just that the >> belly is so responsive that all it needs is that soft hammer to >> drive it and >> develop the full range of partials. > > > I played the Walter grand Del designed at a convention a couple > years > ago, and found it very badly needed voicing down (and I like a bright > piano). I asked, and was told it had Ronsen Bacon hammers. Surprised > the heck out of me. Definitely a different animal. I'll be curious to > see what the Weber he designed is like (there will be one at Vegas I > am told). > Regards, > Fred Sturm > fssturm at unm.edu > http://www.createculture.org/profile/FredSturm > http://www.youtube.com/fredsturm > http://www.cdbaby.com/Artist/FredSturm > > > > Regards, Fred Sturm fssturm at unm.edu "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." Twain -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/caut.php/attachments/20100628/4cd101ec/attachment.htm>
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