Hi Israel, Your predicament reminds me of the Hamburg B I just worked up this month. I hung new Hamburg hammers. I gently filed and polished them as I always do with new hammers. I found, just as you did, that starting around C3 and down the tone was just weak and unfocused. Kind of like NY hammers that need lacquering. It got dramatically worse at the break. These hammers were kind of round and bulbous. So I did a more agressive hammer shaping to establish a more eggy shape to the hammers. I repolished and liked the results in the tenor but was still not satisfied in the bass. So I did a much more aggressive shaping, taking material mostly off the high shoulders of the bass hammers. The sound absolutely came alive and I then started in with my needling. My client is a very sophisticated pianist and singer. He is absolutely thrilled with the sound. The only liquid assistance I supplied was on the top three notes. So you might try this before you get out the fluids. I hope it works as well for you as it did for me. Ted Ted Kidwell, RPT California State University, Sacramento Capistrano Hall, rm. 153 6000 J Street Sacramento, CA 95819-6015 916.278.6737 ________________________________ From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Israel Stein [custos3 at comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 10:44 AM To: caut at ptg.org<mailto:caut at ptg.org> Subject: [CAUT] Hamburg Steinway Hammer Voicing (Up) Fred, Ed and all, Thank you all for your suggestions. Margie and I are working on this piano right now. We needled some sample hammers as per the suggestions below, and we achieved a noticeable tonal improvement - deeper, richer tone in the bass and more "round" tone in the treble along with better projection there. But not much additional "oomph" in the bass. We'll needle the rest of the hammers, see what that accomplishes, and take it from there. I'll keep y'all posted. But it does seem that the bass is going to need some liquid assistance... Israel Stein >Tue, 27 Jul 2010 08:51:06 -0600 Fred Sturm <fssturm at unm.edu> wrote: > I am going to add a bit to what I posted below about deep needling. >With bass hammers, it is often a temptation to say they sound okay as >is, and aren't worth the trouble to do the normal full shoulder >treatment (standard deep needling in the whole shoulder areas of all >hammers). In fact, all hammers of all "hard-pressed" hammers need this >to develop a full tonal range, and also to develop projection. If the >bass sounds dull, and those hammers haven't seen any needles, do the >normal 10 - 40 insertions of a 3 needle tool in each shoulder as a >first step, pretty deep (7-10 mm), standard pattern. Adding lacquer or >other juices to hard-pressed hammers _should_ be unnecessary except at >the very top and sometimes very bottom of the range. Hamburg hammers >are plenty dense, and needles ought to be all that is needed. (With >the caveat I think David Love mentioned about what you are trying to >get out of a board that may not have that possibility). >Fred >>On Jul 26, 2010, at 10:06 PM, Fred Sturm wrote: >>> On Jul 26, 2010, at 7:45 PM, Ed Sutton wrote: >>> >>> First try needling in the very low shoulders, what Andre Oorebeek >>> calls "the battery." >>> Not guaranteed, but I was recently very surprised to find that >>> sometimes it makes a big difference. >>> ES > > > I agree, and not just into the lowest shoulders. DEEP needle, > individual needle, more than 10 mm long, heading from anywhere below > 3 / 9 o'clock into the area of felt near the molding, angling > towards the point of the molding (not passing above that point). It > depends what has been done before, and what kind of hammers they are > to begin with, but these should be a good candidate. Try 2 - 4 > insertions on each side of the molding, listen. Also feel what is > happening - how much resistance to the needle, how stiff it feels in > there. If you are getting more of what you want, and if there is > plenty of resistance (which I would expect), do more insertions. > This procedure can give considerably more focus and power. Not > always, but more often than not. > > Regards, > Fred Sturm > fssturm at unm.edu > http://www.createculture.org/profile/FredSturm
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