we certainly nedd to know at least the following:
String Heights sampled
Current hammer bore
Any obvious wear on the those hammers?
length of tails
hammer shank center pin height
wippen center pin height
clearance above drop screws at the pinblock
blow distance
key dip
let-off distance
key height
damper lift timing
Is this all factory work or has there been some custom rebuilding?
capstan height above key
check the line of center from the bottom of the balance pin hole to the wippen center pin. Do the wippen cushion profile and the capstan pass through the line at one half key dip? Where does it pass through in relation to that line?
You just might be right and shimming the back feet first (I'd try 3/16, and perhaps a little (less than 1/8 under the shank centerpin feet will solve your problems. IT's easily enough mocked up. and regulate a few. yes if you do this, the ultimate arbiter will probably be your capstan height. Should be 1/2 inch. check it first and hope that it is low which it could be at 2" blow distance. Also the fact that these hammers are over centering so much sounds good for raising the stack but we need to know the string height the bore distance and the shank center pin height. Have fun.
Chris Solliday, rpt
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Anderson
To: caut at ptg.org
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Shimming the Steinway Action stack to reach the strings
Mr. Solliday,
I was caught by the proff. in the parking lot after tuning for the Chopin bicentennial concert. I'll have to dig through my notes for what I found last time I investigated this. When I had the blow distance at 1&7/8 I could have a nominal .390 dip with minimal aftertouch ( jack fully clearing the knuckle with small visible gap: I don't like too much but too little is another problem on hard blows). Problem was the shanks were way off of the cushions and there was lots of bouncing going on interfering with repetition and touch. I couldn't get a consistent drop across the compass because the drop screws were already backed out (1/4" drop in some cases), one was broken and a number twisted so the screw driver was loose. After talking to a Steinway tech in parts I got a box of shims sent out. I suggested to the school that maybe this was a Steinway warranty issue to be pursued with the dealer. The dealer sent an irascible tech. who went for lots of blow distance and a lot of aftertouch. This has turned out to be unsatisfying to the faculty and they are now asking me to address the problem.
I'll try to get back in next week and sample a number of different parts of the scale. Seems to me that there was a specific note that is measured and that it was 1/4" high last time I checked.
I'm guessing that besides re-regulating I will probably have to warm over the checking when done because of a potential change in angle. Presently the hammers are all over-centering somewhere between 1/8 and 3/16". They've had some minimal shaping (polishing to try to get some power). Not enough, I think, to significantly change the centering issue.
Possibly backing the capstans out that much may loosen them and require a little water thin CA glue to tighten. I'm also wondering how much that will affect the capstan heel interface.
I recall wondering about shimming the action rails (room under fallboard but less then is available under the pin-block). I'd have to revisit the damper underlever timing. The shift pedal slide guides would need to be adjusted on the cheek blocks too. There should still be plenty of bite for the shift lever but I could shim that too. I recall thinking I could gain 1/8" under the fallboard. I guess it would be easy to temp a shim under the rails and see what the real, full-impact would be for doing so. Educational if nothing else.
I'll get back with hard numbers late next week.
Andrew Anderson
On Feb 26, 2010, at 2:26 PM, Chris Solliday wrote:
And Jim is probably right in this case, as over 2 inches blow distance is alot. Not to mention that you say the drop screws are fully backed out. You may need different dimensioned parts. I guess the point is that we in cyberspace need alot more information from you before we can get specific.
Chris Solliday
----- Original Message -----
From: James N. Hess
To: caut at ptg.org
Cc: caut at ptg.org
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Shimming the Steinway Action stack to reach the strings
Often you are very limited on the amount you can raise the stack because of interference with the pinblock. My experience has been that you may be able to add 1/16". I think reboring the hammers is a better solution.
Jim Hess, RPT
On Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:58:36 -0500 "Chris Solliday" <csolliday at rcn.com> writes:
String Height minus Hammer Bore equals Shank Center Pin Height. We use laminated shim stock that we get from the local hobby store. Realize that just raising the pin height MIGHT work, but consider the arc of the hammer blow. You could end up with the hammer over centering if you simply raise the feet under the hammer flange pins. You need to imagine the pin in space and rotate the stack around it so that the stike point ends up at ninety degrees to the string. It might not be that now. Usually this means shimming the front foot slightly as well. Best of luck Andrew.
Chris Solliday, RPT
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Anderson
To: caut at ptg.org
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Shimming the Steinway Action stack to reach the strings
Yes, mea culpa. Wasn't really thinking the numbers...most likely 2"+
On Feb 26, 2010, at 11:30 AM, reggaepass at aol.com wrote:
The school whose Steinways I service is not satisfied with the dealer's warranty fix (greater then 1" blow distance).
Andrew,
Not sure what you mean by this ("greater then 1" blow distance"). Did you mean greater than 2" (since it sounds like the strings are too high)?
Alan Eder
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Anderson <andrew at andersonmusic.com>
To: College and University Technicians <caut at ptg.org>
Sent: Fri, Feb 26, 2010 9:13 am
Subject: [CAUT] Shimming the Steinway Action stack to reach the strings
The school whose Steinways I service is not satisfied with the dealer's warranty fix (greater then 1" blow distance). They are requesting that the piano be made to play like it should which will require shimming the stack so it is within reach of the strings (>1/4" between fully backed out drop-screws and pinblock).
Has anyone done this? What was the scope of work required? What is a reasonable amount of time to complete the work?
Thanks
Andrew Anderson
James Hess, RPT
200 W. Allen St.
Mechanicsburg, PA 17055
717/580-1445 (cell)
www.hesspiano.com
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