[CAUT] Morality and Piano Technology; was RE: Tuning--again

David Ilvedson ilvey at sbcglobal.net
Mon Jun 22 10:57:38 MDT 2009


Awomen

David Ilvedson, RPT
Pacifica, CA  94044

----- Original message ----------------------------------------
From: "Chris Solliday" <csolliday at rcn.com>
To: caut at ptg.org
Received: 6/22/2009 5:53:01 AM
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Morality and Piano Technology; was RE:  Tuning--again


>Amen,
>Chris Solliday, RPT
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Jeannie Grassi" <jcgrassi at earthlink.net>
>To: "'Sloane, Benjamin (sloaneba)'" <sloaneba at ucmail.uc.edu>; <caut at ptg.org>
>Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 12:37 PM
>Subject: Re: [CAUT] Morality and Piano Technology; was RE: Tuning--again


>> Hello Ben,
>> While I admit I find some of your posts interesting, I must share with you
>> that I am getting tired of weeding out and deleting such emails as the
>ones
>> below.  This List has usually been very good at limiting discussions to
>> technical and university-specific information I would appreciate it if you
>> could direct your comments to those areas.  I can see that the discussions
>> in which you quite frequently find yourself appear to stimulate your
>> intellect, however they are cluttering up the List and I, for one, would
>> appreciate if you would continue such discourse in private and not in this
>> venue.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jeannie Grassi, RPT
>> Bainbridge Island, WA
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of
>> Sloane, Benjamin (sloaneba)
>> Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 7:31 AM
>> To: 'caut at ptg.org'
>> Subject: [CAUT] Morality and Piano Technology; was RE: Tuning--again
>>
>>      Hello Richard,
>>     I suppose I would stand a greater chance of being heard by the people
>> who reacted as if outraged to Christian symbols, if I kowtowed to the
>> pluralistic interpretation of Jeffersonianism that it demonstrates, and
>> would initially have proceeded with a purusartha.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purusharthas
>>
>>    In other words, I could have spoken of dharma opposed to artha, and
>> observed that we need to pursue most of all dharma in what we do, not
>artha.
>> Is there only artha in piano technology? If I am pursuing artha, why enter
>a
>> profession where artha is not likely? We, as piano technicians, in a
>> profession that typically does not pay well these days, must have some
>> appreciation for the pursuit of dharma, as that we do not stand much
>chance
>> of obtaining a great deal of artha in the process. Or we are fools for
>> choosing this profession. And you are fine with that, because we did not
>> employ Christian symbols. Somehow, we conclude this to be a morality free
>> from partiality in the enlightened West, because it does not employ
>> Christian symbols. Throw in some yoga, and you are open-minded kind of
>idea.
>>
>>
>>    In Greek etymology we also can make this bifurcation, for eros really
>is
>> not what the flesh is. But the minute I make reference to Christian
>symbols,
>> and start talking about the spirit opposed to the flesh instead, I write
>> blasphemy.
>>
>>    Ecumenicism and neutrality in religion, or going further, Comte's
>> positivism, on the surface, is the answer to all the worlds problems. "Why
>> can't we all just get along? But in reality, it just can't work.
>>
>>    What is the science of morality, Richard? Why not objectively tell me
>> what is wrong about what I quoted in the bible if it is just another
>ancient
>> religious text? Why is it wrong to play pianos skillfully? This isn't
>about
>> stuffing anything in your e-mail box. It is just an idea that can be
>> evaluated objectively, and that you can respond to objectively. Tell me,
>> what is wrong with this idea?
>>
>>    We can objectively evaluate different religious texts, and determine it
>> is impossible to be neutral. For instance, perusing the Vedas, we find
>that
>> Indra, a supreme Hindu deity, himself is prayed to, and sought for the
>> intoxicating drink, Soma:
>>
>> 9:113:1 "Let Indra the killer of Vrtra drink Soma in Saryanavat, gathering
>> his strength within himself, to do a great heroic deed. O drop of Soma,
>flow
>> from Indra."
>>
>>  The Rig Veda; and anthology. tr. O'flaherty, W. D. New York: Penguin
>Books
>> 1981 p. 133
>>
>>    Do you agree with that? Do you agree that drugs come from a, if not
>the,
>> supreme God? How do you respond neutrally, and not affirmatively, or
>> negatively? Yet in the Qur'an, we find
>>
>> 2:219 "They ask you [Prophet] about intoxicants and gambling: say, 'There
>is
>> great sin in both, and some benefit for people: the sin is greater than
>the
>> benefit.'"
>>
>>    The Qur'an tr. Haleem, M. A. S. Oxford: Oxford University Press 2005 p.
>> 24
>>
>> And so, we respond with an ecumenical attitude to Hinduism and Islam? How
>is
>> that possible? These say entirely different things.
>>
>>    I agree we need to be open on all sides, but it is impossible to be on
>> all sides of the issue.
>>
>>        Respectfully,
>>              Ben
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of
>> Richard Brekne
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:21 PM
>> To: caut at ptg.org
>> Subject: Re: [CAUT] Tuning--again
>>
>>    Yes... well Ben... not meaning to be intolerant or anything... it is
>> basically just plain good form to find appropriate places to share ones
>> beliefs one way or the other about things like God,  Nirvana,
>> Reincarnation, Indagadadavida, the Big Bang...  Evolutionary theory, or
>> whatever....  Not to mention that to begin with I doubt seriously J.C.
>> himself would smile nicely at the idea of pointing ones very human moral
>> finger at another over such an issue, and then insisting on stuffing it
>> down everyone else mailbox whether they want it or not.
>>
>> I dont hear any Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Shinto's, Bai Hai's etc etc
>> etc ad absurdum.... let alone agnostics or atheists insisting on pushing
>> their trips on folks here.  You want to do the Christian thing... fine..
>> go for it.   There is a time and a place for the preaching bit.... and
>> it aint here.  Here... its plenty suffice to hold oneself to the "do
>> unto others" bit... or whatever corresponds to your particular belief set.
>>
>> Cheers
>> "We"
>>
>>        "Grin... boy do we ever agree on this point there David !"
>>
>>         Dear "We,"
>>
>>
>>     I believe some of the criticism of him is a result of the openness
>>     with which he approached his faith in God, and has nothing to do
>>     with how good a technician he is. That is part of what I was getting
>at.
>>
>>     As for the suggestion that observations about the relationship
>>     between morality, piano technology, and religious texts are not
>>     necessarily appropriate and whether or not these have a place on the
>>     CAUT list, I can only remind you that there are many Evangelical
>>     Colleges and Universities that employ piano technicians in this
>>     country that teach the bible is in fact a directive source for
>>     conducting a moral life. As piano technicians working at accredited
>>     schools, do they also not belong on the CAUT list along with my last
>>     post?
>>
>>     Who is being intolerant, the Evangelical piano technicians working
>>     at bible colleges who rarely mention God on the CAUT list, or the
>>     people forbidding so much as any mention of the slightest thing
>>     approaching God on the CAUT list?
>>
>>         - Ben
>>
>>


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