Generally, I would go in early to get to the pianos before the students got there. If I tuned more than one, I could trade rooms easily if I just did a popular piano and exchanged that for the room they were in. This Steinway practice room with Abel hammers I could always depend on being empty later in the morning because it was always one of the last rooms to be chosen. I think the punch I associate with harder pressed hammers may be more desirable on a Steinway D in a concert hall than a Steinway L in a small practice room. It was pretty overwhelming in that small room. There are other old school Steinway new school Steinway things besides modified voicing techniques. Even if they trained Ken Sloane to gang file new hammers in the 70's and 80's, that is not what he taught me. I learned to file hammers one by one first. Actually, the first time I saw gang filing it horrified me. I did start doing it later, but if I am trying to resurrect worn Steinway hammers, I file them one at a time, and for me, it is faster than gang filing. -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Ed Sutton Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 3:46 PM To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] Getting lacquer out of hammers - follow up How was it obvious that it was used the least? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sloane, Benjamin (sloaneba)" <sloaneba at ucmail.uc.edu> To: "'David Ilvedson'" <ilvey at sbcglobal.net>; <caut at ptg.org> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [CAUT] Getting lacquer out of hammers - follow up I didn't want to say because the point is not that they are bad hammers. They are Abel hammers. -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of David Ilvedson Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:46 PM To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] Getting lacquer out of hammers - follow up I'll bet they were Renner blues...? David Ilvedson, RPT Pacifica, CA 94044 ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- From: "Sloane, Benjamin \(sloaneba\)" <sloaneba at ucmail.uc.edu> To: caut at ptg.org Received: 6/15/2009 7:10:06 AM Subject: Re: [CAUT] Getting lacquer out of hammers - follow up > I should probably add that this is a determination I did not make > entirely myself. > As a contractor at CCM before Steinwaynization I regularly serviced half > a dozen >Steinway L's in the practice rooms for years, one which had non-Steinway >hammers. >It was obvious that the one without Steinway hammers was used the least. >This was >the one Steinway that seemed to lag behind the Baldwins far as use was >concerned. >Even the star power of Steinway could not overcome the drawbacks of >installing >non-Steinway hammers in the piano. >From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of >Sloane, >Benjamin (sloaneba) >Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 9:03 AM >To: 'caut at ptg.org' >Subject: Re: [CAUT] Getting lacquer out of hammers - follow up > Hello William, > I understand why people like Kent say some of what they say; to combat > fear, I >think. > Why say "You cannot put too much juice in a Steinway hammer?" >Because people are timid about doing it. > Why say "You need to needle the crown much as necessary and re-juice if > you >needle too much?" >Because people are timid about it, esp. when more familiar with the >hard-pressed >and European hammers, when generally those who teach how to needle those >hammers discourage on the crown needling. In fact, some off the crown >needling is >used on harder pressed hammers to increase sound, not to diminish it, >though I >don't want to get into the specifics of that right now. > Why say "You cannot ruin a Steinway hammer?" Because people are afraid > if they >add too much juice or needle the crown too much, they will ruin the >Steinway >hammer, and so they don't use enough juice or needle the crown enough. > I don't think people are seeing these statements in that context, > though, and that >is part of what I am trying to say. I am using hyperbole in the other >direction. I am >also trying to introduce the observation for all those who decide other >hammers >work better in Steinways than Steinway hammers that I prefer Steinway >hammers in >Steinways, and I don't think with the right knowledge installing Steinway >hammers in >a Steinway should be any more complicated. I've come across a number of >Steinways with foreign hammers installed that sound terrible, largely >because they >did not use Steinway hammers, in spite of all the success people posting on >the >CAUT list apparently have had installing foreign hammers in Steinways. If >Steinway >sends you a bad set, or you are dissatisfied with the pre-lacquering >process and you >know how to do it yourself, by all means send them back, or lacquer them >entirely >yourself. > Good luck with whatever other hammers you use, >- Ben >From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of >William >Monroe >Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:34 AM >To: caut at ptg.org >Subject: Re: [CAUT] Getting lacquer out of hammers - follow up >Ben, >As Fred suggests, the notion is there, but it's not the protocol. I was in >NY last >year, and Kent did suggest that if you "over-do" either needling or >juicing, it can >usually be solved by the reverse process. However, it was also encouraged >that we >develop a feel for how much juicing the hammers would need in any section >and >work efficiently with the application. Fred's post is spot-on otherwise, >in terms of >what NY teaches these days. >William R. Monroe >SNIP >My impression is that for the new it's just, you can't ruin a Steinway >Hammer, needle >juice needle juice needle juice needle juice needle juice needle juice >needle juice >needle juice needle juice needle juice, mind you, all crown needling, and >then people >complain about Steinway hammers. Another way to reduce crown needling is >off the >top juicing, depending on the solvency of the juice, penetration into >hammer, etc. > I am so glad I go to the factory armed with an understanding not > cultivated entirely >by the new school approach, however misinformed a may be about it. > Israel, were those hammers pre-hung? Steinway sells pre-hung hammers now, > and >I do not know how they go about it. I am wondering how much needling those >hammers were subjected to before you even got them. > - Ben
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