[CAUT] Getting lacquer out of hammers - follow up

[Ed Sutton]

How was it obvious that it was used the least?


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sloane, Benjamin (sloaneba)" <sloaneba at ucmail.uc.edu>
To: "'David Ilvedson'" <ilvey at sbcglobal.net>; <caut at ptg.org>
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 3:37 PM
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Getting lacquer out of hammers - follow up


   I didn't want to say because the point is not that they are bad hammers. 
They are Abel hammers.

-----Original Message-----
From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of David 
Ilvedson
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 1:46 PM
To: caut at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Getting lacquer out of hammers - follow up

I'll bet they were Renner blues...?

David Ilvedson, RPT
Pacifica, CA  94044

----- Original message ----------------------------------------
From: "Sloane, Benjamin \(sloaneba\)" <sloaneba at ucmail.uc.edu>
To: caut at ptg.org
Received: 6/15/2009 7:10:06 AM
Subject: Re: [CAUT] Getting lacquer out of hammers - follow up


>    I should probably add that this is a determination I did not make 
> entirely myself.
>   As a contractor at CCM before Steinwaynization I regularly serviced half 
> a dozen
>Steinway L's in the practice rooms for years, one which had non-Steinway 
>hammers.
>It was obvious that the one without Steinway hammers was used the least. 
>This was
>the one Steinway that seemed to lag behind the Baldwins far as use was 
>concerned.
>Even the star power of Steinway could not overcome the drawbacks of 
>installing
>non-Steinway hammers in the piano.

>From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of 
>Sloane,
>Benjamin (sloaneba)
>Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 9:03 AM
>To: 'caut at ptg.org'
>Subject: Re: [CAUT] Getting lacquer out of hammers - follow up

>    Hello William,
>   I understand why people like Kent say some of what they say; to combat 
> fear, I
>think.

>   Why say "You cannot put too much juice in a Steinway hammer?"
>Because people are timid about doing it.

>   Why say "You need to needle the crown much as necessary and re-juice if 
> you
>needle too much?"
>Because people are timid about it, esp. when more familiar with the 
>hard-pressed
>and European hammers, when generally those who teach how to needle those
>hammers discourage on the crown needling. In fact, some off the crown 
>needling is
>used on harder pressed hammers to increase sound, not to diminish it, 
>though I
>don't want to get into the specifics of that right now.

>   Why say "You cannot ruin a Steinway hammer?" Because people are afraid 
> if they
>add too much juice or needle the crown too much, they will ruin the 
>Steinway
>hammer, and so they don't use enough juice or needle the crown enough.

>   I don't think people are seeing these statements in that context, 
> though, and that
>is part of what I am trying to say. I am using hyperbole in the other 
>direction. I am
>also trying to introduce the observation for all those who decide other 
>hammers
>work better in Steinways than Steinway hammers that I prefer Steinway 
>hammers in
>Steinways, and I don't think with the right knowledge installing Steinway 
>hammers in
>a Steinway should be any more complicated. I've come across a number of
>Steinways with foreign hammers installed that sound terrible, largely 
>because they
>did not use Steinway hammers, in spite of all the success people posting on 
>the
>CAUT list apparently have had installing foreign hammers in Steinways. If 
>Steinway
>sends you a bad set, or you are dissatisfied with the pre-lacquering 
>process and you
>know how to do it yourself, by all means send them back, or lacquer them 
>entirely
>yourself.

>   Good luck with whatever other hammers you use,

>-          Ben



>From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of 
>William
>Monroe
>Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 9:34 AM
>To: caut at ptg.org
>Subject: Re: [CAUT] Getting lacquer out of hammers - follow up

>Ben,

>As Fred suggests, the notion is there, but it's not the protocol.  I was in 
>NY last
>year, and Kent did suggest that if you "over-do" either needling or 
>juicing, it can
>usually be solved by the reverse process.  However, it was also encouraged 
>that we
>develop a feel for how much juicing the hammers would need in any section 
>and
>work efficiently with the application.  Fred's post is spot-on otherwise, 
>in terms of
>what NY teaches these days.

>William R. Monroe
>SNIP
>My impression is that for the new it's just, you can't ruin a Steinway 
>Hammer, needle
>juice needle juice needle juice needle juice needle juice needle juice 
>needle juice
>needle juice needle juice needle juice, mind you, all crown needling, and 
>then people
>complain about Steinway hammers. Another way to reduce crown needling is 
>off the
>top juicing, depending on the solvency of the juice, penetration into 
>hammer, etc.
>  I am so glad I go to the factory armed with an understanding not 
> cultivated entirely
>by the new school approach, however misinformed a may be about it.

>  Israel, were those hammers pre-hung? Steinway sells pre-hung hammers now, 
> and
>I do not know how they go about it. I am wondering how much needling those
>hammers were subjected to before you even got them.

>   - Ben