List, The best way to "deglaze" and or clean extremely grungy ivories is 4-0 (four-ought) steel wool. Synthetic steel wool (like Scotch Brite) is also available in 4-0 rating at most hardware stores, but you have to read the package closely to find it. This is an advantage since there is no fallout or shedding from the synthetic stuff. This SHOULD BE followed by a light buffing using the white compound, but it is not vital depending on the situation. (I rather like the satin/smooth feel from the steel wool, and find that many times it will blend right in with the other keys, if you are just touching up). If you buy a standard set of buffing compounds there are usually 3-4 different sticks included (like red rouge, Tripoli, and the white stuff). I have also had success using the standard Tripoli in a pinch, which does work on real ivories, but it is just not as great as the white stuff (not sure of the technical name). I am pretty sure I bought my small set of compounds at Sears, but these sets should be available in most hardware stores. I have been using the same small white stick for like 20 years, and still have about 3/4 of it left! I have NEVER heard of using beeswax on piano keys--maybe I will try it someday, just to see. Also, I recommend having an extra buffing wheel "dedicated" to buffing ivories, one for Tripoli, and one for the sharps, also with Tripoli. They are very affordable-so no need to cut corners! Hope this helps, Kevin Fortenberry -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of caut-request at ptg.org Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:05 PM To: caut at ptg.org Subject: CAUT Digest, Vol 14, Issue 44 Send CAUT mailing list submissions to caut at ptg.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to caut-request at ptg.org You can reach the person managing the list at caut-owner at ptg.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of CAUT digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Sperrhake Harpsichord wire (Ron Nossaman) 2. Re: slippery keys (Douglas Wood) 3. Re: slippery keys (Fred Sturm) 4. Re: slippery keys (Ron Nossaman) 5. Re: slippery keys (Douglas Wood) 6. Re: slippery keys (Susan Kline) 7. Re: slippery keys (Susan Kline) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 13:10:49 -0600 From: Ron Nossaman <rnossaman at cox.net> To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] Sperrhake Harpsichord wire Message-ID: <4B1D5339.5090000 at cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Fred Sturm wrote: > It was not a question of intuitive belief. For me it was a question of > calculated values. If the formulae through which those values were > arrived at are faulty, then the values are not reliable. Yes, I got that. > Congratulations, you won! You came out ahead here, because you have better break% information coming out than you had going in. Better information is always a win. I came out ahead, because I hadn't considered friction in a smaller replacement string being slightly less apt to break, so I got better information too. Back to work. Dampers await. Sometimes an elf would be better than information... Ron N ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 12:20:16 -0800 From: Douglas Wood <dew2 at u.washington.edu> To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] slippery keys Message-ID: <A3153E48-33B1-44A3-9869-17F944EA1F36 at u.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed"; DelSp="yes" Well, this is a timely one for me. I have just attempted to address a complaint of excessively slippery ivory. ! It's a 1987 S&S D with Kluge one-piece ivory. It had been scuffed quite a long time ago (before I started here), and has been just a bit unsatisfactory all this time. That is, the keytops were either clean and too slippery, or almost disturbingly dirty. (Sensibilities have gotten more sensitive with all the H1N1 hysteria...) So I've been reflecting on this, and my current hypothesis is that the reason that ivory has this reputation of being just a bit tacky is not so much the ivory as the finish that's on it. Which is, I believe, bees-wax based buffing compound. So I have just buffed all the naturals. (Now I'm wondering if I should also buff the ebonies...) I'm posting here in the hopes that some of you might be able to either corroborate or correct this line of thought. Anyone?? If this is so, then simply buffing any key with a bees-wax compound should make it feel much better. This has been my experience, and the experience of others (e. g. Barbara). The difference between ivory and plastic becomes a matter of how long the bees-wax finish persists. I have heard that buffing the bees-wax changes the nature of the finish?? Anyone?? So just rubbing it on helps, but buffing might be better? I will no doubt hear from the artist (one of our top-notch faculty members) after the Friday concert. But in the meantime, perhaps someone actually knowledgeable about bees-wax, buffing, ivory and plastic can add to this? Thanks. Doug ********************************* Doug Wood Piano Technician School of Music University of Washington dew2 at uw.edu dougwood.pianoman at att.net (206) 391-9613 ********************************* On Dec 7, 2009, at 9:49 AM, Richard Brekne wrote: > A very thin polished layer of red cross country ski wax. > > Cheers > RicB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/caut.php/attachments/20091207/2c2ab2d2/attachment-0001.htm> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 13:40:07 -0700 From: Fred Sturm <fssturm at unm.edu> To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] slippery keys Message-ID: <414ED127-109A-482D-889D-6D52F786C36F at unm.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes On Dec 7, 2009, at 1:20 PM, Douglas Wood wrote: > So I've been reflecting on this, and my current hypothesis is that > the reason that ivory has this reputation of being just a bit tacky > is not so much the ivory as the finish that's on it. Which is, I > believe, bees-wax based buffing compound. So I have just buffed all > the naturals. (Now I'm wondering if I should also buff the ebonies...) > > I'm posting here in the hopes that some of you might be able to > either corroborate or correct this line of thought. Anyone?? I have under my care one of those D's with the one piece ivories, and I think they are particularly smooth. They seem to have a very even and solid grain. I think most older ivory tends have a more pronounced grain, and develops a surface grain, as the softer portions wear with use. I think this may be where the reputation of "tackiness" of ivory comes from. I don't find the feel of the smooth one piece ivory much different from plastic, in the sense of slipperiness. It does feel different, and I kind of like the feel better, like a wooden tuning lever handle versus plastic. But I think slippery treatment is probably the same. BTW, a few of my one piece ivories have developed cracks, from the corner (where the sharps are) into the wide part. Anyone know of whether it is possible to have someone replace this material successfully? Regards, Fred Sturm University of New Mexico fssturm at unm.edu ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 15:13:42 -0600 From: Ron Nossaman <rnossaman at cox.net> To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] slippery keys Message-ID: <4B1D7006.1010900 at cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed How about disposable Nitrile gloves? The keys can be clean, the pianist can be germ free about the fingers, and still get traction. Ron N ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 15:43:42 -0800 From: Douglas Wood <dew2 at u.washington.edu> To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] slippery keys Message-ID: <0BBA95F5-03C7-40D0-9880-07B83995D3FF at u.washington.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed I'm pretty sure Blackstone Valley Piano will do this. Mike Morvan claimed that the cracking is more likely when new wood and new ivory are used. Currently, only old ivory is available, so he told me that there should not be a problem with one-piece tops on a new keyset. I would guess less trouble yet on older keys. And I'm pretty sure he can do individual keys. We, too, have a few such cracks. Maybe I should get a quote..... There are probably a couple of other places that will do this--David Warther seems to be the main source of ivory, and I think he can provide a list of people doing ivory key coverings. It's been a while since I've actually researched ivory availability... Doug On Dec 7, 2009, at 12:40 PM, Fred Sturm wrote: > On Dec 7, 2009, at 1:20 PM, Douglas Wood wrote: > >> So I've been reflecting on this, and my current hypothesis is that >> the reason that ivory has this reputation of being just a bit >> tacky is not so much the ivory as the finish that's on it. Which >> is, I believe, bees-wax based buffing compound. So I have just >> buffed all the naturals. (Now I'm wondering if I should also buff >> the ebonies...) >> >> I'm posting here in the hopes that some of you might be able to >> either corroborate or correct this line of thought. Anyone?? > > > I have under my care one of those D's with the one piece ivories, > and I think they are particularly smooth. They seem to have a very > even and solid grain. I think most older ivory tends have a more > pronounced grain, and develops a surface grain, as the softer > portions wear with use. I think this may be where the reputation of > "tackiness" of ivory comes from. > I don't find the feel of the smooth one piece ivory much different > from plastic, in the sense of slipperiness. It does feel different, > and I kind of like the feel better, like a wooden tuning lever > handle versus plastic. But I think slippery treatment is probably > the same. > BTW, a few of my one piece ivories have developed cracks, from the > corner (where the sharps are) into the wide part. Anyone know of > whether it is possible to have someone replace this material > successfully? > Regards, > Fred Sturm > University of New Mexico > fssturm at unm.edu > > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 18:56:39 -0800 From: Susan Kline <skline at peak.org> To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] slippery keys Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20091207185602.04234be0 at peak.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 10:16 AM 12/7/2009, Fred wrote: >Why red? Norwegians know their ski wax ... Susan >On Dec 7, 2009, at 10:49 AM, Richard Brekne wrote: > >>A very thin polished layer of red cross country ski wax. >> >>Cheers >>RicB > >Regards, >Fred Sturm >University of New Mexico >fssturm at unm.edu > > > > ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 19:03:01 -0800 From: Susan Kline <skline at peak.org> To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] slippery keys Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20091207185921.042b1ae8 at peak.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > I don't find the feel of the smooth one piece ivory much different >from plastic, in the sense of slipperiness. It does feel different, >and I kind of like the feel better, like a wooden tuning lever handle >versus plastic. But I think slippery treatment is probably the same. I believe that one reason for ivory's superior touch compared to plastic is that when plastic gets wet (from sweat) it gets more slippery, while ivory gets less slippery when wet. Maybe this has to do with ivory being porous. I don't think there's any reason to buff the sharps with a beeswax compound. Just mark them with a beeswax candle, and rub it around with your fingers. No need to take out the action, etc. Susan Kline ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ CAUT mailing list CAUT at ptg.org http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/caut End of CAUT Digest, Vol 14, Issue 44 ************************************
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