[CAUT] Tuning a Steinway D and a Bosendorfer Imperial together

[Fred Sturm]

Hi Kent,
	So you believe that Stopper's tuning is substantially different from  
the 3:1 tuning achieved on Tune Lab that David Porritt describes?
	What I described wasn't a lot of calculations, it was simply a means  
to create a tuning "on the fly." It actually involved very little  
calculation - mostly raw measurement and simple addition and  
subtraction. I frankly don't think dividing a 12th evenly into 19 is  
significantly different from dividing an octave evenly into 12. Not  
different at all if the octaves are equal.  I suppose you will say the  
proof is in the pudding. And, though your files sounded fine to my  
ear, they certainly didn't blow me away. The match between the two  
pianos was quite good, certainly. Why? Well, I think that any tuning  
system based on the 3rd partial will markedly reduce the differences,  
for the simple reason that you are "staying within close range." 3rd  
partials vary much less than higher partials. Inharmonicity is   
logarithmic in nature. You could get a better match with a tuning  
based on 2nd partials, and the very best based on 1st partials.
	So, fine, the VTD is good at creating acceptable tunings that will  
make pianos of varying inharmonicity match. That's all to the good, if  
that is a problem you face. You face it with your Bosey. I have two Ds  
on my stage, so it is very rarely an issue for me. I am more  
interested in a tuning that, to my ear, sets off the individual pianos  
to their best effect. And I think that a tuning based on higher  
partial matches (whether done electronically/mathematically or  
aurally) does that better.
	Of course, all this is very subtle compared to the primacy of unisons  
and stability. Which is where the art and craft of tuning really lies.  
The rest is really quite variable, both stretch and temperament,  
though we spend so much time and energy arguing about stretch and  
temperament and trying to develop our own skills in those areas.  
Ironic, no?
Regards,
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm at unm.edu



On Oct 1, 2008, at 5:52 PM, Kent Swafford wrote:

>
> On Oct 1, 2008, at 3:59 PM, Fred Sturm wrote:
>
>> I'm afraid statements ... make me very, very skeptical and wary.
>
> Of course. Likewise, I am sure.
>
>
>> Personally, I don't believe in magic.
>
> New technology is indistinguishable from magic, and I do believe  
> that new technology comes along from time to time.
>
>
> Your spreadsheet construction is very interesting, but it would not,  
> after all of those calculations, match two pianos that differ wildly  
> in inharmonicity. Or, if you say it would, I await the audio  
> files.   8^)
>
> No one said that 19 tone to the perfect twelfth equal temperament is  
> new. (Although Stopper does claim to have been among the first to  
> publish it many years ago.) Stopper's approach to realizing the  
> tuning across a whole piano scale and indeed across a wide variety  
> of differing piano scales in such a way as to produce a  
> characteristic and pleasing synchronous effect, however, does appear  
> to be new.
>
>
>
> Kent
>

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