Hi Ted, Just some feedback on the "long pinning method" you mention below (Thanks Jurgen!). I have been doing this for quite a while now and it seems to have much more longevity and be more stable than other methods. I think it is because the long pin pulls one direction through the center, thus "combing" the fibers in one direction and packing them in tight. When I use other back and forth burnishing techniques and "shake down" the parts the grams may go from say 5 to 4 or 3 until they become immovable. With the long pinning method there is no "shaking down" necessary or possible. Either way is good and can be done to perfection, but this "European way" is becoming my preferred method because of this instant and permanent stability and better longevity. Better Longevity means that I repin about every 3-4 years instead of every 2-3 years. It may be even better than that because I'm at about 4 years since I started using the method and some are still good! Regards, Jim Busby BYU -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Ted Sambell Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:08 PM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: [CAUT] center pinning changes Having come from the UK (many years ago) I well remember the great actions too. A while ago I had to put heavier hammers on a Heintzman grand with a French Schwander action because the touch averaged 40 grams, and there were no lead weights to speak of in the keys.Nor wippen flange springs. They seemed to have got the geometry right. The wippen flange centers were doweled. The old Bluthner uprights were overdampers with wonderful adjustable brass flanges, outrageously copied from earlier Erards, but even more finely machined. John, I would be interested in knowing if you have adopted the long wire centrepinning rechniques which seem to have taken over in Europe. Jurgen Goring demonstrated this in Calgary last year. He is very skilful at it. I understand the Rappaports have given classes on this too. It is certainly quicker than the separate small pins.For removing the old pins, I have made a support block which goes on the drill press. Once set up it is clamped into place. It accomodates a variety of parts and flanges and provides solid support for the attached parts. This is for repetition work , of course. Mounting a piece of rod in the chuck permits rapid pinning up too. But it is amazing what can often be done with minimal means. In Guangzhou, China, at the Pearl River factory I saw a woman worker pin a row of 88 flanges to wippens in under five minutes. All she had to work with was a cube shaped block of brass about 1-1/2" square with a small hole in it, mounted on the bench, a small hammer, a broach mounted in a handle and a flush cutting pair of side nippers. We were told it took three months to train someone to do this. I could see nothing wrong with this approach, but there were operations in the bushing of the flanges I did not care for. Ted Sambell Ted Sambell Ted Sambell----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe And Penny Goss" <imatunr at srvinet.com> To: "College and University Technicians" <caut at ptg.org> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [CAUT] center pinning changes > <G> > An hour after a bath there is enough lanolin behind the ear to use as a > lube. > This is what my flute players to use to lube their flute joints. > Joe Goss RPT > Mother Goose Tools > imatunr at srvinet.com > www.mothergoosetools.com > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Ross" <jrpiano at win.eastlink.ca> > To: "College and University Technicians" <caut at ptg.org> > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 3:24 PM > Subject: Re: [CAUT] center pinning changes > > >> Coming from Scotland, I remember the Saturday night bath. :-) >> I now shower every day, a habit from my time in the Navy. >> So my repinning, now involves, Protek, or Goose Juice. >> John M. Ross >> Windsor, Nova Scotia, Canada >> jrpiano at win.eastlink.ca >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John Delacour" <JD at Pianomaker.co.uk> >> To: "College and University Technicians" <caut at ptg.org> >> Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 4:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [CAUT] center pinning changes >> >> >> > At 12:39 -0400 8/9/07, Ted Sambell wrote: >> > >> >>...one continually runs into pianos one hundred years old in which >> >>the centers are still perfect. They used no lubricants, but >> >>evidently took the time to do things properly. >> > >> > Quite so -- or almost. I have just been recentring the hammers of a >> > Kirkman upright from about 1870 which has had by no means a charmed >> > life and which most people would have taken to the dump. The pins >> > were original at 1.18 mm and not one of them was either loose or >> > unacceptably stiff. I recentred throughout with 1.20 mm German >> > silver centre wire. Today I have inspected the centres of an 1895 >> > piano with an Isermann action. Since this piano has had very light >> > use and is virtually as good as new, I shall probably not even >> > re-centre but use Protek, since most of the centres here are also >> > perfect. It is a real pleasure to work on old actions from the great >> > makers. >> > >> >>Renner do wonderful work, so it is mystifying why they should have >> >>this problem. >> > >> > I also have recently acquired a 1905 Lipp with a Renner action >> > (rather unusually, since at the time they generally used Keller. I >> > very rarely find a Renner action in an old piano and there is nothing >> > very special about it, and certainly not the centres. If they did >> > such wonderful work then, it's surprising so few makers recognised >> > it! I don't regard their work now as wonderful either. The really >> > great German and French action makers are long gone, together with >> > dozens of mediocre makers. >> > >> >>I just use a little teflon powder on my fingers when handling >> >>centerpins. In the old days we were taught to run the pins through >> >>our hair before inserting them. Of course, back then people washed >> >>their hair once a week. so it was a good source of lanolin. I think >> >>graphite is unnecessary, and messy stuff anyway. >> > >> > I have better things to do than wash my hair every day and never do >> > centring jobs until about 3 or 4 days after washing it, since this is >> > the very best way to get just the right amount of lubrication on the >> > pin and ease the passage of the pin through the wood, without which >> > either it will creak and seize or require so much pressure as to risk >> > bending the pin, and it is remarkable how many bent pins one >> > discovers when decentring original work. If a centring job simply >> > must be done when my hair is newly washed, then I wipe the pins on a >> > rag steeped in tallow. >> > >> > JD >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >
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