Ed, On occasion, I notice subtle differences in tone while tuning, based on my key striking technique. I don't know that I could describe the difference in the strike, other than rather than simply pounding, the stroke is accelerated through. But I notice a difference in tone, and can also detect subtle differences in regulation with the "accelerated keystroke" technique, where I don't notice slight differences in regulation from simply pounding. Jeff On Friday, October 10, 2003, at 02:18 PM, Ed Sutton wrote: > Horace- > > Here's a question for you (and anybody else): How would you imagine > mechanically, > a "blow"....or should we say "touch"? that is a mechanical imitation > of the way(s) > a fine performer might move the key? It's easy enough to drop a half > pound weight > 4", but that seems a very crude approximation of a way of striking a > key that is > seldom used in performance. > > My point is subtle (and some would say -too-subtle), that we should > begin with a > model of what sensitive performers do, then try to make a contraption > that works > similarly. > > Ed Sutton > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Horace Greeley" <hgreeley@stanford.edu> > To: "College and University Technicians" <caut@ptg.org> > Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 12:51 PM > Subject: RE: Steinway "pinning" dilemma > > >> >> Jim, >> >> At 08:51 AM 10/10/2003 -0600, you wrote: >>> List, >>> >>> Last week we were given a Realtime Spectrum Analyzer. We didn't know >>> exactly what to do with it. Hmmm... Anyone want to suggest some >>> tests to >>> run? >> >> If Tim remembers Chris' mechanism more clearly than I do, maybe he >> can give >> you some details. The thing that made that series of demonstrations >> so >> phenomenal was the ability to so precisely control the blow. If >> memory >> serves, there is a pretty good engineering school at BYU - maybe some >> enterprising students could come up with something in their (copious) >> free >> time. >> >> I don't think that Chris would present his work as being the end of >> the >> experiments - rather, as places from which to begin. >> >> Pinning makes a difference. Now you have precisely the toy, errrr, >> tool, >> to demonstrate that fact. >> >> I wonder, given the changes/advancements in computer technology since >> Chris >> did most of his work...perhaps there is a way to more graphically >> represent >> things, real time, as well as getting the numbers out. The analyzer >> Chris >> used was a B&K, with numbered lights for a read out...very useful; >> but a >> little more difficult to immediately apprehend. >> >> Horace >> >> >> >> >>> Jim Busby BYU >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of >>> Tim Coates >>> Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 7:05 AM >>> To: College and University Technicians >>> Subject: Re: Steinway "pinning" dilemma >>> >>> Does anyone remember the classes Chris Robinson did using a Realtime >>> Spectrum Analyzer (borrowed from Kurztweil Company)? I know it was >>> in >>> Philadelphia about 12 years ago. Using a mechanism to create an even >>> blow and recorded with the analyzer he showed how repinning to proper >>> specs (at that time 6 grams) changed dramatically the tone of a >>> particular note. >>> >>> Pretty eye opening. Previously people speculated about the tonal >>> affects of proper flange friction. He showed it scientifically to be >>> true. >>> >>> Tim Coates >>> University of South Dakota >>> University of Sioux Falls >>> >>> Fred Sturm wrote: >>> >>>>> --On Wednesday, October 8, 2003 7:55 PM -0600 Roger Jolly >>>>> <roger.j@sasktel.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Fred, >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 4gms of friction seems to be the optimum for >>>>>> tone >>>>>> production, _as it keeps the knuckle firmly in contact with the >>>>> >>>> balancier_. >>>> snip >>>> >>>>>> Regards Roger. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Roger, >>>> Looking at this more carefully, I have to disagree with you as >>>> to >>>> the mechanism for the tonal effect of firm pinning. From the point >>>> of >>>> view of the hammer being thrown to the string, I think mass, >>>> inertia, >>>> and leverage are plenty to maintain firm contact between knuckle and >>>> jack. Where lack of firmness has its effect is in the wobble that is >>>> introduced during the throw of the hammer, and even more so the >>>> wobble >>> >>>> upon impact with the string (ie, what the hammer does during the >>>> time >>>> it remains in contact). So from a purely tonal point of view, I >>>> don't >>>> think friction per se plays a role. >>>> Where it does have an effect is in the neuro-muscular response >>>> of >>>> the pianist. I am convinced that a fine pianist can feel the >>>> difference between 2 and 4 grams friction in a hammershank center, >>>> in >>>> terms of what needs to be done to create the final velocity of the >>>> hammer, and that 4 grams will be found preferable in allowing more >>>> nuanced control. But even more important is evenness from note to >>>> note. Better all 2 gram than higglety pigglety with an average of 4 >>> grams. >>>> All of this is more in the realm of mental picturing than >>>> measurable physics, because it is next to impossible to separate one >>>> factor from the others with any reliability. You have to assume >>>> travel, square hanging of hammers, evenness of felt density and >>>> elasticity, evenness of shank firmness/sponginess, etc., etc. But >>>> when >>> >>>> all you do to a fly away action is repin it, the result is usually >>>> quite dramatic, at least in my experience. >>>> >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Fred Sturm >>>> University of New Mexico >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >>> _______________________________________________ >>> caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >> > > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >
This PTG archive page provided courtesy of Moy Piano Service, LLC