[pianotech] Old can of worms (was Re: tunelab vs verituner)

[Richard W. Bushey]

Duaine,

I guess I'm not understanding your reasoning that tuning with ETD is easier 
on the ears.  I use an ETD for pitch raising and setting the temperament, 
but my ears perked up when you claimed that it in some way saves your 
hearing and your sanity.  Thought I'd comment.

As someone else mentioned, the listening process is the same...or should 
be....for either aural tuning or tuning using an ETD...that is IF you are 
actually using a test blow to render the strings.  The only way I can see 
that it could be physically easier on your ears using an ETD would be if you 
are using a softer tuning blow and NOT using a test blow to render the 
strings.  Rendering the string is a MUST either way you tune, therefore any 
effects on hearing due to tuning should affect the hearing the same, either 
way you decide to tune.

Now, I do agree that you can turn your brain off, if you wish, using an ETD, 
and "save your sanity" as you suggested...if you want, but I surely wouldn't 
recommend it.  I don't do it, and your tunings will surely show it if you 
do.  I do use an Accu-tuner III, take FAC caculations on every tuning, and 
use that to set the bearing.  I always make checks and listen to beats as I 
tune to be certain that what I hear trumps what I see....ALWAYS. The ETD 
always goes off for tuning unisons.

I am not saying which method is better.  There will always be arguments for 
either method, and in my opinion, neither is right or wrong...just 
different.  If your tuning is musically acceptable when you're finished, you 
and your client are satisfied, then you've succeeded. The fact is, no matter 
who you are (if you've been in the guild 40 years and tune aurally, or not 
in the guild and tune with an ETD) you can do really aweful tunings using 
either method, and you can do quite superb tunings using either method.  It 
all depends on if you really know how to tune or not! It depends on if you 
know how to check if something is right/wrong (or at least as acceptable as 
can be for that particular piano).

ETD's can be quite helpful and reduce stress, as you say (I totally agree 
with you here, they're especially helpful for me during pitch raises to help 
me not make overpulling mistakes that can lead to broken strings, etc). The 
key is knowing how to use the ETD to indicate what you want it to, use it as 
a guide, and let your ears and brain do the rest (decide whether what it is 
telling you is the truth or not!)  If a piano strings are tight...I decide 
whether to overpull it the 25% or not, or whether to tune it just to just a 
few cents above A=440 and just go over it again.  There are many great uses 
for ETD's so long as we don't just turn them on and stop the lights.

My father is a retired minister and he always reminded the congregation to 
not just trust what he says from the pulpit, but to look it up for 
themselves.  Not that he wasn't trustworthy, but that he is human and makes 
mistakes.  So, that in essence, is what we should be doing when using an ETD 
of any kind.  Don't necessarily sit back, shut the brain off and tune 
totally by autopilot.  I'm not a pilot, but I'd suppose it's much easier to 
fly planes that have all the instruments and fancy bells and whistles...I'm 
sure it can be less stressful to have instruments to rely on, and can be 
much safer too, but there's times where instruments give false info. and 
it's up to the pilot to make the judgement call on whether to trust what he 
sees, or take the controls.  In fact, I would want my pilot checking at all 
times to be sure the instruments were telling the truth.

I'm in NO WAY insinuating that you are not a good tuner, I am just 
commenting based on your statements and the questions it raised in my mind.

Anyway, thought I'd add my 2 cents for whatever it's worth.

Richard W. Bushey
Richard's Piano Service
www.RichardsPianoService.com
Rbushey at RichardsPianoService.com
573-765-9903



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Duaine Hechler" <dahechler at att.net>
To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Old can of worms (was Re: tunelab vs verituner)


> On 05/11/2012 09:26 AM, Susan Kline wrote:
>> On 5/11/2012 4:52 AM, Ron Nossaman wrote:
>>> Somehow, the presumption among ETD users is that aural tuning is 
>>> stressful, yet aural tuners don't complain about stress and wish they 
>>> had an ETD. Maybe it's just the aural tuners who do find it stressful 
>>> who adopt ETDs as a result. A few ETD users I know went back to aural 
>>> because they found it more satisfying. Doesn't matter at all either way, 
>>> but I think the fewer false premises that are repeated and pounded as 
>>> truths, the better.
>>
>> Concur. I don't understand the "stressful" argument at all. Is it 
>> stressful for a duck to float on a pond?
>>
>> Maybe ETD tuners trying to tune aurally (not the ones who tuned aurally 
>> for years, the ones who never really got familiar with the process) use 
>> TOO MANY checks? That could slow them down and stress them out. One uses 
>> tests to resolve anomalies in a tuning, not multiple tests for every note 
>> and interval. Well, this "one" does.
>>
>> I don't really understand the "time" argument, either. Doesn't it take 
>> time to watch the lights?
>>
>> Susan
>
> WOW, Susan, what was the point of the bigger and bold font ?????
>
> Anyway, the MAIN stress point is the concentration of "hearing" and 
> "listening".
>
> Yes, call me crazy, but I'd rather save my ears - and - my brain (as in 
> sanity) with respect to hearing and listening and, in the case with 
> Cybertuner, watch a turning circle to tell me whether a note is flat or 
> sharp, wait for it to stop and fill in when a note is dead on.
>
> WHY wouldn't anyone do that. (Who knows, maybe, it would keep the aural 
> tuners from getting those dreaded hearing enhancers (aka Hearing Aids).
>
> And, yes, any tuner still my need to get those hearing enhancers BUT an 
> aural tuning puts undue stress on the ears.
>
> Duaine
>
> -- 
> Duaine Hechler
> Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ
> Tuning, Servicing&  Rebuilding
> Reed Organ Society Member
> Florissant, MO 63034
> (314) 838-5587
> dahechler at att.net
> www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com
> --
> Home&  Business user of Linux - 11 years
> 


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