Sent from my iPad
>
>> Not to deliberately belabor this point, but answer me this;
OK, no problem
>>
>> 99.9% of my tunings involve MAJOR pitch raises. With aural tuning ONLY,
>> how in the "sam hill" can you do a MAJOR pitch
>> raise in less than 2 hours.
A major pitch change aurally of 20 to 100 cents takes me 20 min.
With experience view learned how much to over pull...gets pretty close.
Followed by a 45 min regular tuning from scratch.
Total 1hour and 5 min.
And it's good.
As for How.......practice.
But the machine is better for a major pitch raise.....one pass 45min
10 min to 15 min touch up.
But, I still agree the machine is superior for a major pitch raise.
95% of my clients are repeat clients though, and the pitch is most
Often very very close unless there are environmental challenges.
>>
>> Now let's see - that involves setting the temperament, PRESUMABLY, at the
>> same time, calculating stretch, tuning each
>> note, tuning the unisons, etc Oh, yeah, do your "precious" aural tuning
>> checks, but, wait, the piano is constantly
>> moving because it was so out-of-tune, but some how you are still supposed
>> to do them, how I will never know. Starting
>> from the middle, tune up and tune down AND with the piano still moving
>> along the way. So now you some sort of BASE
>> tuning, so now you have to go back and "tweak" BUT, again, the piano is
>> still moving, so you have to, maybe, tweak again
>> and again and again, etc. Have I forgotten anything
>>
>> Now, with an ETD (like, Cybertuner (because that is what I have)), you
>> capture the "starting" point of the piano with
>> all the A's; IT calculates the proper pitch of the note where it is
>> supposed to be - factoring in, automajically, the
>> stretch and you tune from note 1 to note 88. Now, do some MINOR checking,
>> which you MIGHT need to make some MINOR
>> tweaking. And, now you are DONE.
>>
>> Stepping back out of your CURRENT life and as a NEW tech coming into the
>> business, you would pick the ETD route. So did
>> I, like millions of other techs.
>>
>> So there - "put that in you pipe and smoke it"
>>
?????
Why contentious language.
I am not downplaying the merits of a machine at all, wonderful tools now.
They do fantastic pitch raises, yes. I agree.
My only point was that aural tests have value to learn. The people giving the
Exams care. It is adds value, added skill, and it's a beautiful thing.
Also that the exams are not like using a slide ruler and pencil, much of
The exam can be done with a machine. My points are valid, and responses
Are not addressing, or questioning the positive points I am attempting to make.
As a musician and artist I for one wish to embrace it all, and encourage
Others to do the same.
If you ever come to a convention Im at, I'll by you lunch and we can have a friendly
Encouraging chat.
PS. I like that your reproducing player roll copies, and am referring some clients
To your site. Love to talk players with you some day as well........
Cheers
Dave Renaud
>> Duaine
>>
>> On 05/10/2012 07:57 AM, David Renaud wrote:
>>> I did not at all suggest I had an engineering degree, I have a music
>>> degree.
>>>
>>> I was addressing the comment previously made by someone else suggesting
>>> that having to take today's tuning Test was
>>> like asking to take an engineering exam with only a slide rule and
>>> pencil.
>>>
>>> My hope was to point out that the apology is not good because:
>>>
>>> 1)Indeed, you actually can use technology for large parts of the tuning
>>> exam.
>>>
>>> 2) The aural part is primary to demonstrate that a candidate actually
>>> does know some aural test.
>>> In this interest, The margins of error are very larg, and this part is
>>> not to produce a concert level tuning at all,
>>> but a minimal standard. Most of the people I have seen fail this part
>>> knew practically no aural checks tests
>>> whatsoever. Forget executing tests well ,the problem was so many do not
>>> have the information at all. It is a test of
>>> demonstrating a minimal knowledge of aural tests.
>>>
>>> 3) the exam process does have a written part before qualifying to take
>>> the tuning exam. As you suggest should be, is
>>> indeed, Questions Regarding partial, harmonics, and stretch are part of
>>> the written exam.
>>>
>>> So my point was only that the analogy with the slide rule is not
>>> valid. And my discussion was intended to point
>>> out that a fair comparison would be an exam where the candidate would be
>>> Expected at some point in the exam to demonstrate some minimal manual
>>> mental calculations and knowledge without
>>> referring to the computer/devise. In my opinion the aural component
>>> of the tuning tests does this minimal
>>> demonstration of aural testing knowledge for it has generous margins of
>>> error, and anyone with basic knowledge and
>>> practice of a 3 or 4 Interval tests can achieve passing at the 80%
>>> level. The problem I have seen so often in the exam
>>> room with the aural part is mostly lack of knowledge of any aural
>>> tests. It is indeed a demonstration of a minimal
>>> standard, not concert tuning.
>>>
>>> I have mentored enough experienced tuners through assimilating
>>> basic aural skills to have an opinion. ALL of them
>>> say it opened up a whole new world to them. All of them appreciated and
>>> valued the added techniques. You do know that
>>> none of the examiners get remuneration for the
>>> Hundreds of hours they have spent training for and being in the exam
>>> room? To give that much
>>> Free time you have to have a spirit that really desires to give back.
>>> These people want others to succeed, and have
>>> put their time and money behind their words giving thousands of dollars
>>> worth of time because they do care. One CTE I
>>> respect very much asked me once."if we will not preserve Something of
>>> the aural tradition, who will? "
>>> There is value there. There are people that care and give
>>> there. The aural part
>>> Deserves respect.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Dave Renaud
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Duaine Hechler
>> Piano, Player Piano, Pump Organ
>> Tuning, Servicing& Rebuilding
>> Reed Organ Society Member
>> Florissant, MO 63034
>> (314) 838-5587
>> dahechler at att.net
>> www.hechlerpianoandorgan.com
>> --
>> Home& Business user of Linux - 11 years
>>
>>
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