[pianotech] Old can of worms (was Re: tunelab vs verituner)

[Bill Fritz]

David, I do believe there are points to be made on both sides of this discussion.  And there are some points that Duaine mentions that are worth detailing.

First, in what discipline did you earn an Engineering Degree?  My reason for asking, that subject matter and/or school was probably out of date, if you had to demonstrate how to use a slide rule.

In the Science (BS Physics) and Engineering (MSEE) schools I attended, we did hardly any mental number calculations.  But what we did have to understand were the concepts & underlying principles.  Then we had to set up any problems w/ the appropriate usage of formulas.  At that point, the professors would give us almost full credit... certainly enough for an A.  If we miscalculated using our slide rule, we might lose 1 point in 15 or so.  Dropping us to an A-.  Certainly a grade to be proud of in Engineering schools.  

With the advent of even just the mainframe computer, the focus was on the ability to understand & solve the problems.

Though I'm not sure if Duaine was schooled in Science or Engineering, I believe he is at least partially taking a similar stance with respect to the temperament tuning part of the test.

I would expect that part of any Tuning test would also include a written portion on the theories of why that temperament & octaves are tuned the way they are, to achieve a tight ET temperament.  Fifths are narrowed, etc...  Which note are we referring to in a 4:2 octave of A3/A4?  What are the checks used, and WHY? etc...

And of course, what others have suggested, there would be more Unisons & Stabilities testing emphasis (Aurally only)...  for to most customers, that's what they seek & can understand.  What do we hear at the PTG Conventions over & over & over?   In descending order of importance:  Stability, Unisons, Octaves, and finally temperament.

Before the advent of today's ETD's, Tuners had to rely on the Temperament section to extend the octaves & make the total piano sound in tune with itself.  And the more accurate the temperament was, the better those top & bottom octaves sounded.  That is not true today w/ ETD's.  Any offset the ETD tuner inadvertently makes on the middle note pitches does not get translated into a target for those top & bottom octaves, unlike the Aural tuner.

PS  In our Engineering school, we did not have to demonstrate how the slide rule worked... we only had to understand it's basic principles of adding logarithms.  And our Professors quickly jettisoned the slide rule for the handheld calculators when they arrived.

So yes, the RPT tests need to move into the 21st century (much less the last quarter of the 20th!).  With the advent of the ETD, many Piano Techs without the "RPT" title, with some experience & the ETD, can out tune the "Craftsman" of old.  And yet the PTG keeps pushing this old focus.

Best Regards...   Bill Fritz, St Louis




From:
David Renaud <drjazzca at gmail.com>

To:
pianotech at ptg.org <pianotech at ptg.org>

Subject:
Re: [pianotech] Old can of worms (was Re: tunelab vs verituner)

Date:
Wed, 9 May 2012 21:46:13 -0400




 Duaine, I think only the first section of the test, setting the temperament, 
s required to be done aurally.  After that, you can use an etd.
 Gary
 
You can use a computer program for much of the tuning test. So in the analogy, 
he engineer would have technology at his disposal, but at some point in the 
est might be asked
o do some mental calculations also. Fair. As an expert in his field, and a 
eacher, perhaps for a moment asked to demonstrate he does know how a slide rule 
ctually works.
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