[pianotech] Stealth temperaments

[Joseph Giandalone]

You guys,

Granted that it's "fun to experiment," I need to point out that what you describe here would not be considered a legitimate (scientific) experiment in any psychology lab or course in the world. You need truly controlled conditions, randomized selection and assignment of subjects, and DOUBLE BLIND ADMINISTRATION. Controlled conditions would include having 2 identical pianos, or perhaps the same piano tuned 2 diffrerent ways. In any case, the piano teacher (in your example) would not be permitted to know which piano had which tuning (nor would the students).

If this criticism seems nonsensical to you, I kind of agree – there are too many variables and terms are too loosely defined in the kinds of situations we live and work in. Nevertheless, if you want to think about REALLY TESTING some of your theories about temperaments, etc., you should begin by taking a Psych 101 course, or reading a book on experimental design (related to the Social Sciences and/or the measurement of perception.)

Speaking for myself, I think a lot of what passes as Gospel in our trade has little solid basis in experimentation – given that the object of our work is basically just to help other people to get what they need out of their pianos. You can take all kinds of fancy measuring implements and split hairs to the Nth degree, but what do the users of the piano hear? Like the folks who market audio reproduction equipment: yes, you can sell "the specs" to the self-identified "Audiophiles" who bother with that stuff, but most of what you're selling is beyond human powers of perception.

It seems to me that much of what we hear when we hear music, is what we EXPECT to hear – that is, we have absorbed a 12-tone equal-temperament scale from the time we were little babies, so that is what we hear. Many people play happily away on out-of-tune pianos (or crappy flutes, or whatever) and enjoy themselves just fine because what they're HEARING are just the regular old notes and tonalities that we all know and love. (Adepts of different musics, eg. Classical Indian with its micro-tones, would react differently.)

Just listen to any fine Opera singer. What do you really hear? Because of their vibrato, their pitch is actually wavering all over the place (some way too much for my liking). Our ears adapt though, and kind of "average it out" to hear one pitch. Same thing with groups of tones: listen to a community chorus of amateurs – individual voices may be all over the place pitchwise, but it "blends" and if you listen to the whole group it (can, if you're lucky) sound just fine.

Music is more in the mind than anyplace else.

And seriously, I'd be curious to know if ever there were legitimate scientific experiments done around things like piano tone. I swear half the stuff I have been peddled about Voicing is a bunch of bull.

Respectfully

Joseph Giandalone, RPT
Conway, MA

On Apr 30, 2012, at 12:32 PM, Bill Fritz wrote:

> As the old cereal commercial said "Try it, you'll like it!".
>  
> I have a piano teacher who has 2 grands side by side.  As an experiment & for her students' education, we tuned one at ET and the other the Vallotti-Young.  (I use an ETD, so that would eliminate any "prejudice" on my part.)  http://www.rollingball.com/images/HT5.htm  http://www.microtonal-synthesis.com/scale_vallotti_young.html  http://www.kylegann.com/histune.html
>  
> After 3 months, about half of her students liked the V-Y temperament better.  They claimed it was easier to play their pieces (Mozart, Chopin, etc) on the V-Y piano.  There was even a comment that the runs were easier.  (The other half didn't seem to care either way.  No one hated the V-Y.)
>  
> Our next experiment will be when there's a Music Teachers' meeting at this lady's house... and we'll tune the differences again, and have them play their favorite pieces.
>  
> It's fun to experiment...   Bill Fritz, StLouis
>  
>  
> From:	Ron Nossaman <rnossaman at cox.net>
> To:	pianotech at ptg.org
> Subject:	Re: [pianotech] Stealth temperaments
> Date:	Sun, 29 Apr 2012 22:24:05 -0500
> On 4/29/2012 9:31 PM, Ron Koval wrote: 
> > Well fer sure, I don't think I ever wrote that I tuned at that 
> > resolution. 
> 
> Nope, you didn't, or even hint it. 
> 
> >It just makes sense to set the target 
> > up at a specific location based on the math - there's gonna be some +/- 
> > going on in the real world... 
> 
> Obviously, and also obviously in varied perceptions of where the real world starts. While I'm not an alternate temperamenter, I appreciate someone like you and Jason who care enough about your interests to explore them and report your findings for others of like interest. 
> 
> Good job, 
> Ron N

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