[pianotech] "Stealth Temperaments" or sumpin' like that<G>

[Joseph Garrett]

Dave,
You are entitled to your opinion. However, if you were to truly TRY the Historical Temperaments, then you would be able to hear the "difference". If you play Bach on Equal Temperament, a lot does not make MUSICAL sense. Played on an organ or piano with a Well temperament, ...THEN it makes all kinds of musical sense. I suggest you're so used to Equal Temperament, (whatever that really is<G>), that your brain just doesn't recognize the musical sense and simply computes it as "out of tune". 
That's my take on that...and I have some personal proof of that.<G> There is one factor that I believe: Because the Modern Piano has such high tension/harmonic distortions, the Historic Temperaments have a different sense about them. I do not like the sound of a modern piano, tuned in anything but Equal.<G> The Older instrumments, however, have a different "sound" to them, which I like. l think that is due to the lower tension scales and different soundboard/bridge configurations of that time. Consequently, good condition Olde Instruments are best tuned to the scales, (temperaments), of their time or something close to that. 
The temperaments of Ron's, I suspect, will sound o.k. on a modern instrument...just different.
As for your comment about not being able to hear 1/10th of a cent...if that's the case you need to relearn you skill imo.<G> And never mind that "Most people can barely hear a one-cent difference..."! That's just crapola, imo. Not relavant to the discussion, imo.

Regards,
Joe


----- Original Message ----- 
From: David Nereson 
To: joegarrett at earthlink.net;pianotech at ptg.org
Sent: 4/29/2012 9:29:32 AM 
Subject: Re: [pianotech] "Stealth Temperaments" or sumpin' like that


     Most people can barely hear a one-cent difference in pitch, never mind a tenth of a cent.  And you're going to try to tune to the nearest hundredth of a cent?  What's the point?  It's like trying to mow your lawn to the nearest 64th of an inch.  There's too much nitpicking over the inconsequential in this business.
     Some of these "historical" or non-equal temperaments seem to achieve about the same result as letting the piano go out of tune for a few months, or even a year or two, then tuning just the unisons without setting the temperament.  I've tried several of them and I still maintain that the difference is so subtle, it's barely worth bothering with.    
--David Nereson, RPT


On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:36 PM, Joseph Garrett <joegarrett at earthlink.net> wrote:

Ron K. Said: These are good places to begin your journey, as well as your
ear training to feel the difference of the thirds progression. ?These are
the four strengths that are different enough to make a difference, yet not
too far apart - they make a nice progression. ?
KV 1.15KV 1.3KV 1.7KV 2.1
So the largest offset from ET ranges from 1.12 cents to 2.1 cents. ?It
surprised me how little change in cents could be felt both "from the bench"
as well as from the audience. ?
KV 1.15A 0A# .99B -.57C 1.15C# -.15D .46D# .69E -.46F 1.15F# -.31G .76G#
.31Major thirds 12.1-15.0 ? ET thirds = 13.7?
KV1.3A 0A# 1.13B -.65C 1.3C# -.17D .52D# .78E -.52F 1.3F# -.35G .87G#
.35Major thirds 11.9-15.2
KV 1.7A 0A# 1.48B -.85C 1.7C# -.22D .68D# 1.02E -.68F 1.7F# -.46G 1.14G#
.46Major thirds 11.3-15.6
KV 2.1A 0A# 1.82B -1.05C 2.1C# -.28D .84D# 1.26E -.84F 2.1F# -.56G 1.4G#
.56Major thirds 10.7-16.1
There are stronger choices, but these offer a 'safe' place to begin a
temperament journey..."

Ron,
Hmmm? One slight problem, as I see it, most ETDs only go to ONE Decimal
point, not two. I'll have to use my SOT, Modified with Bournes Ten Turn
Pots, to lay those in. Seems like there is a need for that extra decimal
point Someone should maybe tell the ETD manufacturers??? Thanks for the
info. I'll give em' a try on my German Overdamper thang.<G>
Regards,
Joe


Joe Garrett, R.P.T.
Captain of the Tool Police
Squares R I
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