[pianotech] new/old list...

[David Skolnik]

Ron,
You make a number of good, if discrete points, each of which is 
deserving of greater consideration, however, the thread, thus far, 
has, for the most part, become sidetracked. The one I'd like to 
follow up on is the change in the nature of the list(s) and its 
impact.  It's poignant, in a way, that the perennial struggle to 
define the organization, it's objectives, and the relationship 
between the (basically) two types of membership - RPT's and 
Associates (and everyone else out there)  has now emerged as a 
question of how we are to interact with one another, as defined by 
the list protocols.  Would it be seriously proposed that such a 
discussion would be most appropriately venued (original 
verbification) at PTG-L,  where many of those affected are either 
unable to participate (non-members) or don't know that they can, or 
how (members)? Would this be deemed inappropriate discussion here 
(pianotech at ptg.org) because it's not 'about' pianos?  Would a similar 
such discussion be even more censured  on the PTG Pianotech 
list?   Is there something fundamentally different about this list, 
either in content or community, that is not replicated in the other 
forum, for all it's positive aspects and, depending upon one's point 
of view, for better or worse?

In the time perhaps remaining, while this list still exists, where, 
and how can this issue receive a thorough, fair, less inflammatory 
hearing?  I don't have  the time right now, but the stats on number 
of contributors (vs. subscribers), ranges of frequency of posts from 
individual contributors, overlap of subscribers / contributors to old 
and new lists...are easily derived for both lists.

The final irony (for the moment) is that, for all the investment of 
energy in updating our communication technology, we seem to be having 
a harder time of it than ever.

David Skolnik
Hastings on Hudson, NY


At 02:07 PM 10/26/2011, you wrote:
>Yup, it's me.
>
>I pulled myself out of lurking mode to respond to what I felt was an 
>example of the reality of
>what lies just beneath the veneer of civility - that attitude of 
>entitlement and elitism that kept
>me away from the PTG for years.  I finally joined because of this 
>list - back when it was hosted
>by BYU - even before Andy Rudoff hosted.  The lure of an "open 
>source" discussion; where learning
>and teaching was valued by many of the technicians I'd get a chance to meet.
>
>Associate and non-member bashing really doesn't reflect well on the 
>brand of RPT.
>
>I read almost everything on this list, but don't respond too much 
>anymore.  It was instructive
>to go back into the archives to find out that this list began to be 
>hosted by the PTG in the fall
>of 2002.  Even after the move the list claimed: (from the "more info 
>on this list")
>
>The "pianotech" list, provided as a community service by the Piano 
>Technicians Guild, is a forum for piano technicians. The list 
>resides on the PTG server and is maintained by the PTG, but the PTG 
>does not control the content in any way.
>The "pianotech" list is an open list, allowing anyone to subscribe 
>or submit posts.
>
>Contrast that with the new list: (which runs too slow for me to use 
>in a meaningful way)
>
>"This site is provided as a service for the members of The Piano 
>Technicians Guild."
>
>Perhaps this could be a reason for the push to the new 
>software?  I'm troubled by this shift, perhaps as
>much as I am troubled by my (and your) dues money now being used for 
>radio ads in our local community
>that are at best a conflict of interest, and at worst a departure 
>from the truth.
>
> From what I understand, membership in the PTG accounts for about a 
> third of the working technicians in the states.
>Of those members, about a half are RPTs.  I've got to wonder about 
>my commitment of time and money
>to an organization that advertises against half of the membership...
>
>Ron Koval

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