[pianotech] Stiff WNG? (was Steinway top)

[Mark S Burgett]

We did quite a bit of deflection testing on wood shanks and the strength
varies greatly from shank to shank.  For the Carbon Fiber shank it is
very consistent in strength and you would think that the stiffer shank
would be more difficult to play on light playing but this is not true, I
have heard many pianists say it is very controllable.

 

Mark

 

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From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On
Behalf Of David Love
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 4:14 PM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Stiff WNG? (was Steinway top)

 

Makes sense.  But don't most of these issues of "give" pale in
comparison to the flexibility of either the key or the hammer shank?  In
this case it seems what's at issue is how the flexibility of the cf
hammer shank compares with wooden shanks of various dimensions.  I would
guess there must be some data on that compiled by WNG.  Are you aware of
how they compare on that level?  

 

David Love

www.davidlovepianos.com

 

From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On
Behalf Of Delwin D Fandrich
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 9:59 AM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Stiff WNG? (was Steinway top)

 

Plastic bushings are less compliant than felt bushings. 

 

All parts of the piano action have some "give" to them. The most obvious
being the flex of the key. The second being the flex of the hammershank.
Following these it becomes more difficult to measure just how much the
"give," or flex, of each component is contributing to the overall
saturation of the action. The capstan felt has some give to it. The
wippen body has some amount of flex. The action rails have give to
them-Steinway rails tend to rotate-etc. Felt action centers are also in
there. Felt bushings have some amount of compliance. Primarily the jack
center and the hammershank center. 

 

I'm not sure I worded my point in the best way. All piano actions
exhibit the phenomena of action saturation. At issue is the point, in
terms of hammer velocity vs. key velocity, that you reach that point.
And what the hammer velocity will be at that point. In some actions-an
action with a lot of flex and compliance in it-action saturation occurs
relatively early, others-actions with stiff keys, hard felts and
leathers, etc.-it comes on some later; with at harder, faster keystroke.
Up to a point you'd like to transmit as much energy through the key as
fast as possible and accelerate the hammer as much as possible. 

 

I've not tried setting up my equipment to actually measure the
difference in compliance between the traditional wood/felt action
components and the new WN&G components-I'm not sure I even still have
everything. But my sense is that energy transfer from the capstan to the
hammershank is more efficient and more immediate. At least that is how
it feels to me. This means, in theory at least, that energy put into the
key is more efficiently transferred through the system and the actual
point of action saturation will come with a somewhat harder, faster
keystrike. The pianist seems to have just a bit more "control" over the
relationship between the key end and the hammer motion. One pianist-and
this on a piano with a low-tension scale and relatively light
hammers-described it as being more "intimate." 

 

As to whether this reduction in compliance is a good thing or not
depends, I suppose, on your perspective.

 

ddf 

 

Delwin D Fandrich

Piano Design & Fabrication

6939 Foothill Court SW, Olympia, Washington 98512 USA

Phone  360.515.0119 - Cell  360.388.6525

del at fandrichpiano.com - ddfandrich at gmail.com

 

From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On
Behalf Of David Love
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 7:33 AM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Stiff WNG? (was Steinway top)

 

Why would a non felt bushing lower the action saturation point and why
is a lower action saturation point more desirable?  

 

I thought action saturation had to do with the relative flexibility of
the levers (shank or key) that can result in an inability to accelerate
the hammer beyond a certain point due to excessive flexing.  So unless
I'm thinking of this backwards I thought a lower action saturation point
was a potential problem as characterized by accelerated actions without
the shoe where the key lacks adequate stiffness.  

 

Re Joe's point, how do the carbon fiber shanks compare in terms of
flexibility to, say, a traditional Steinway 3/16" shank?  With light
hammers some people do complain about the Renner hex shanks because of
excessive stiffness and therefore a lack of feel.  The action saturation
point, as I view it, would be lower with the 3/16" shanks (when compared
to the 7/16" hex shanks) because they are more flexible but one might
have greater feel of the hammer especially if the hammers were very
light in weight.  

 

David Love

www.davidlovepianos.com

 

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