I have been using more and more my CA kit (3 strenghts) with accelerator (and cleaner) It is a great show for the customer (some of this, pschit pschit some of that, two drops of another bottle, pschshit ) music stand repaired ! I tell first :"do you mind a little strong smell ? it should dissipate rapidly" If I forget my kit, white glue and regular ca (very small single dose I have hidden in my bag always) can save the day. Allan Sutton, m.mus. RPT www.pianotechniquemontreal.com 2010/9/9 Susan Kline <skline at peak.org> > Hi, Terry > > I find it difficult to imagine how you got a mixture of white glue and CA > glue NOT to set up! > > As for the accelerator -- sure, it sets up CA extremely fast, but it also > stinks. I don't know what is in it, but possibly it uses solvents, or > something which is toxic, since the one time I used it it was so irritating. > White glue is very non-toxic and so easily available. > > Also, I imagine that the white-glue-CA bond is tougher than the accelerated > bond, possibly just because it takes a few seconds to set. I think that an > absolutely instant bond isn't as robust long-term, though this might just be > my idea. Possibly people should do comparative tests. I don't feel like it, > because I don't want to breathe any of the accelerator. > > Once the joint has set up, it can be pulled apart fairly easily for a few > minutes. It gets firmer and more determined within the hour, though. At > least it has seemed this way to me. I like this feature, because if I do > something wrong, I can take it apart if I catch it quickly, and then do it > over again, after refreshing the glues. > > As for the bond of CA-white glue being stronger than CA alone, it was just > my own experience. If I use CA glue alone, and get a little on my fingers, > and they stick to something or each other, I can pull them apart, and just > lose a thin superficial layer of skin. But the time I managed to have a > little white glue on my index finger, and got some CA on my thumb, and THEY > stuck together .... ! ! ..... the bond went deep enough I could tell that > they were not coming apart, and if they did, I'd have a bleeding wound to > deal with. I had nail polish remover in the car, and I had to walk out there > with my thumb connected to the middle of my index finger, and it took a lot > of work and repeated dousing with acetone to get them apart. I only did that > once (smearing white glue into a hole for a rubber button, then holding the > button and putting the CA onto it, messily, and the thumb contacted the > slightly white-glued index finger while pressing the button into the lid) > but I never forgot the experience. > > I don't think it's all that good an idea to repeat this experiment, just to > validate the idea. > > Trying to figure out why you didn't get CA and white glue to set up .... I > wonder. I've tried the "trick" with many brands of water based glues, > Elmer's, Titebond, yellow carpenter's glue .. all worked equally well. > However, I have not used different brands of CA. I've used Loctite brand, > water thin, throughout. It has always worked, unless it got so old that it > thickened in the original container. > > One could also consider quantities of each, but I've found the "trick" to > be very tolerant of that. A pretty good ribbon of white glue with just a few > minor dots of CA dropped into it set up pretty well. Small scanty smears of > white glue with a layer of CA on the other piece (assuming it was > non-absorptive, wood or cardboard instead of cloth) worked just fine. > Someone used the "trick" to glue a thin wood carving onto a piano leg, using > LOTS of both, and it squeezed out into a sort of foamy ooze, but the bond > set up, and he was able to pull off the extra all in one string a few > minutes later. > > If the bond is working right, for instance, cloth to cloth or cloth to > wood, within a few seconds of the two glues meeting you can feel heat > through the cloth. > > The CA mustn't be left just sitting around. I put the white glue on first, > get it where I want it, then as soon as the CA touches it, the parts or > cloth must be pressed together immediately. Once the CA is wet (in contact > with water), it crosslinks and turns solid very quickly, and once it is > solid it won't glue anything it wasn't already touching while liquid. > > Possibly if you gave me more details, Terry, I could figure out what might > have happened. > > The original article is in the October, 1997 Journal. > > Susan Kline > > > On 9/9/2010 5:41 AM, Terry Farrell wrote: > >> I've tried the white glue/super glue thing and it never seemed to set up. >> It's definitely NOT instant. Maybe I just didn't want to wait long enough - >> but then, that is one of the major advantages of super glue - bonds can be >> within seconds - and is often one of the criteria I use in selecting CA for >> a particular application. >> >> What is the basis for your claim that the CA/water-based glue joint is >> much stronger than CA alone? With "CA alone you can truly glue yourself to >> yourself in a way which requires acetone and a lot of patience and >> determination to reverse. Don't ask me how I know...." >> >> I hope I don't sound too much like I am berating your Susan! I don't mean >> to do that at all. My interest is that I don't want to be missing out on any >> great little tech tip like this seems to be....... but I just haven't been >> able to figure out what is the advantage of this over CA with accelerator. >> >> Do you have a reference for your Journal article? I do remember reading >> it, but it's been a while. >> >> Thanks!!! :-) >> >> Terry Farrell >> > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20100909/58e35c04/attachment.htm>
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