Mike, you are right that that's what the insurance companies do. But I object to the idea that I in some way am a freeloader. I did exactly what the advisers from the hospital suggested that I do, and I accepted their very first offer immediately. I believe I paid all the costs which they incurred on my behalf, or maybe a small amount more. By paying in a lump sum, I saved them a lot of billing expenses, waiting time, (and sometimes possibly legal costs) which "normal" payment options like insurance probably saddle them with. I'm done with this topic. Susan On 11/3/2010 5:19 AM, Mike Spalding wrote: > That part was paid by the same people who pay the part the insurance > companies don't pay. Look at any EOB (explanation of benefits) from > the insurance companies - there's the amount billed, then the > discounted amount the insurance company has negotiated (bullied) with > the provider. In the case of hospital surgery bills, the discounted > amount can be as little as 1/3 the original amount billed. Don't > attack Susan for doing, in a small way, what every insurance company > does in a very big way. > > Mike > > On 11/2/2010 4:05 PM, David Love wrote: >> Susan: >> >> Just one question. When you negotiated that hospital bill down to 30k >> who paid the part you couldn't pay? >> >> >> >> David Love >> www.davidlovepianos.com >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *From: * Susan Kline <skline at peak.org> >> *Sender: * pianotech-bounces at ptg.org >> *Date: *Tue, 02 Nov 2010 13:36:35 -0700 >> *To: *<pianotech at ptg.org> >> *ReplyTo: * pianotech at ptg.org >> *Subject: *Re: [pianotech] Medical costs (OT!) was:billing dilemma >> >> Will, you bring up one of the fatal errors in how conventional health >> insurance worked before the health care bill passed (flawed as it is >> by corporate pressures from all sides). >> >> An insurance pool, to work right, has to have the largest possible >> number of people in it. It should be affordable enough that many >> people pay in, but the catastrophes happen to only a few of them, so >> the system stays in the black. Insuring for a routine and expected >> expense is madness, because it balloons the costs to several times >> what they would be if people just paid out of pocket. I remember when >> dental insurance became common. Suddenly the fees for my dental care >> tripled, though I didn't do a single thing to cost the dentist a >> penny more than before. >> >> What we need is not more insurance. We need more health, so that >> major medical costs only happen to a few people, instead of almost >> all of them. Plus we need efficiency, with doctors on salary. They >> should be forbidden to take kickbacks for prescribing drugs, as many >> now do. They should not be paid by the procedure, since this >> multiplies procedures, some of which are dangerous and most of which >> are expensive. They should be protected from needing expensive >> malpractice insurance. Instead of victims getting huge money >> settlements paid for by malpractice insurance, doctors who are truly >> incompetent should have their licenses revoked. There could be a >> public fund to reimburse victims, so that half the proceeds wouldn't >> line lawyers' pockets. >> >> The "pre-existing condition" cherry picking just dumps huge segments >> of the population to fend for themselves. Often this is absolutely >> not their fault. Many of them work and take reasonable care of >> themselves and have money and are willing to fund their medical >> coverage, if it could be made efficient enough that the premiums >> weren't an invitation to bankruptcy. In the present situation, they >> can't find a way into the system. >> >> What we have now is a hodge-podge of exceptions and ad-hoc ways of >> getting people treated when they are not in the shrinking pool of >> those privileged enough to be insured (through work for major >> companies, extreme wealth, or being young healthy and employed). You >> see the disconnect? Those who most need health care are the very ones >> closed out from obtaining it. >> >> This is why every industrialized country (EVEN BRAZIL!!) has some >> form of universal coverage or a hybrid public-private setup. Adults >> were in charge. They saw that leaving people with no access to >> routine health care led to much higher expenses when they were in the >> final stages of fatal but preventable diseases. It was a lot cheaper >> and more humane just to be sure that everyone could get a certain >> basic amount of care. >> >> We needed the public option really badly. But people fuming from Fox >> News "entertainment" (read "tissue of lies") brought guns to public >> meetings, screamed at the top of their lungs, and all the rest of it. >> Obama and the Democrats blinked. >> >> Okay, one more point and I'll shut up about politics. I see people >> saying with fervor that they don't want to pay for the health care of >> people who have all sorts of bad habits, eat junk food, smoke, etc. >> Might I point out that they are already paying for it in the present >> system? Anyone can go to an emergency room and they have to be >> treated, though they have to go through the gauntlet of waiting in >> terrible conditions in the major city hospitals crowded with other >> uninsured people. (What are you advocating? Sending someone having a >> heart attack out to die on the sidewalk?) A universal system would >> provide a way that everyone would pay something, means-tested for the >> poorest, so that those people now crowding and stressing the system >> could be treated early in a civilized uncrowded non-emergency >> setting, and they could help pay for their treatment. >> >> On the other hand, people complain that no one should be forced to >> buy insurance. I am one of those who didn't buy insurance for thirty >> years, but if the system had been fair and equitable and efficient, I >> would have rushed to buy in. I don't imagine those who avoid being >> insured also avoid using the hospital when they have a medical >> crisis. If they had paid a little in for years before the crisis, the >> system might have been able to take care of them and still stay in >> the black. >> >> We heard all these arguments before Medicare was passed. But then >> last year Fox News's campaign to derail the health care bill inspired >> the elderly at town hall meetings to shout that Obama "should keep >> his hands off our Medicare!!" You can't really have it both ways. >> >> Susan Kline >> >> >> >> On 11/2/2010 2:52 AM, William Truitt wrote: >>> >>> You make me ashamed of myself, Terry. You are, of course, correct. >>> Health insurance is for 18 to 24 year old young women with no prior >>> medically disqualifying history (we’ll overlook the medical crime of >>> being born just this once) (not for men in that age group, they get >>> drunk and fall off buildings) and the very wealthy. >>> >>> My prediction is that when the wealthy can’t afford health insurance >>> either, they will become Nazi-Facist-Commie-Socialists too. >>> >>> Will >>> >>> *From:*pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] >>> *On Behalf Of *Terry Farrell >>> *Sent:* Monday, November 01, 2010 10:58 PM >>> *To:* pianotech at ptg.org >>> *Subject:* Re: [pianotech] Medical costs (OT!) was:billing >>> dilemmawith pitch raises >>> >>> Nice comments Will, but one glaring error: >>> >>> On Nov 1, 2010, at 10:16 PM, William Truitt wrote: "...this is how >>> private health insurance works also. Everybody pays into a pool so >>> that the individuals who need to take from the system can get the >>> care they need when they need it, at least in theory." >>> >>> I would argue against this Will. In universal health insurance, >>> everybody pays into the pool via taxes. In private health insurance >>> only those who are healthy pay into the pool, unless of course, the >>> odd situation arises that the insurance company can't find a way to >>> disqualify someone who has a medical issue........ >>> >>> Terry Farrell >>> >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20101103/35e3e515/attachment-0001.htm>
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