Hi David: I shared my experience with Mark Burgett at WNG a little while ago. My parts were from an early production run, and he said they were aware of those issues and had addressed them by making changes in their production processes. At this point, I am content to take him at his word. Each of the problems were on a very few of the parts. As for hammer hanging, they changed the drill bit from 2.7 mm. to 2.8 mm and went to a very slow setting CA glue. My experience with the glues were that the looser heads were much easier to control in the gluing process because of a longer grab time. This change was in response to issues that techs had reported to them in the field with gluing on hammer heads. The attraction to me has been twofold: The nylon composite makes them non-reactive to moisture. Here in the Lakes Region of New Hampshire, you slam into both extremes of the humidity spectrum, so that's a plus. Secondly, the modularity of the parts is attractive - the moveable and differently sized capstan heels, and same for knuckle size and location. If one is trying to set up an idealized action in rebuilding, the flexibility is obviously attractive. Overall, I have found the quality of the parts to be as good or better than what we are getting from other suppliers. I haven't used Renner parts for years due to quality issues. Tokiwa and Abel are good but not perfect - no one is. >From my experience with the rep springs and the comments of others, it seems like the springs remain an issue that they need to further dial in. And the back check kit needs a lot of improvement to be as flexible in application as we rebuilders need. Most of my shop action jigs are 4th or 5th generation designed to be as adjustable as possible, and are much better at meeting those goals than the WNG kit. Will From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of David Love Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 10:32 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] WNG Parts Question With all these issues, what's the overriding advantage in using them? David Love www.davidlovepianos.com From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of William Truitt Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 4:13 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] WNG Parts Question Hi Nick: I'm mostly through my first regulation on the WNG shanks, whippens, capstans, front and balance rail pins, and back checks; along with Weikert felt Ronsen hammers. The shanks and whips are the cloth bushed ones, which were sitting on my shelf for a while. My observations thus far: Yes, the rep springs are insanely, outrageously strong - even with this set of Weikert felt hammers, which are on the heavy side. I'm regulating them now but have done about half of them. I'm still deciding what I'll do to get them down consistently. What did you end up doing Nick, besides pulling them up to strengthen them or pushing them down to weaken them? I did have some problems with some of the drop screws being loose in the shank flange hole, and the jack window height adjustment screw the same. Also, some of the center pins were not centered well in their bushing cloth. Also the ends of the shanks varied in diameter at the tips, which required me to take sandpaper and round them down a bit. Some hammer heads were quite tight on the shanks. This created problems gluing on the heads. I tried it both ways - the Franklin # 65 they were originally recommending, and a slow set CA glue (not theirs). When the head is tighter on the shank, the glue starts to grab sooner. The shanks are not very stiff torsionally, yet are stiff longitudinally. I ended up doing about the "average" amount of traveling on the shanks. "Burning"of shanks is pretty simple and easy as pie once you start to get used to it. I did end up with about half a dozen loose heads, which I CA'ed back on. I did remove one to relocate it, no problema. No clicikng issures But these are early parts so I will chalk these issues up to growing pains and am reluctant to extrapolate those issues and defects to current production. Friction was very consistent in the 2 to 4 gram range, just as you observed. Whips consistent. I removed them from the rail and cut off the excess shank on the band saw, then cleaned them up on the belt sander. Blew them out with an air gun. I don't like the tubed shanks - I think it gives the hammers a hollow sound J Did you put in WNG backchecks too, Nick? I would be interested in your reaction to them if you did. Did you use the back check kit that WNG sells? I did, but I had to modify 3 of the 5 jigs just to be able to use them on this Steinway A. Will Truitt From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Nicholas Gravagne Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2010 11:30 AM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: [pianotech] WNG Parts Question For those of you familiar with the new Wessell, Nickel and Gross (WNG) composite action parts: Having recently installed WNG whippens along with shanks and flanges (w/ the new hard bushings) I have a couple of questions. 1) What is your general, overall sense of these parts in terms of regulation and performance? For one thing, we are finding the rep springs way too strong, requiring more than usual "uncoiling" to obtain correct spring strength. The shank flange friction is within WNG specs of 2 to 4 grams as measured per the WNG site. 2) Have you encountered clicking sounds, reminiscent of the old S&S Teflon bushings? We have on about 8 treble notes. The clicking also might have been loose hammer heads, but these were checked and also reinforced (front and back joints) with CA glue, followed by making sure of flange and action screw tightness. Still clicking. Since the flange bushings are hard (as opposed to the earlier WNG parts which came with cloth bushings) we cannot easily check / repin these centers. Any WNG-specific insight on the source of clicking? Some quick thoughts: The action is an old Boston M&H BB that was heavily leaded. The lighter weight and lower inertia WNG parts, including the low-mass capstans, allowed for a significant amount of lead removal and / or reduction. The shanks "burn" easily and surely with a heat gun. The WNG "action glue" recommended for hammers, etc., works fine as long as you don't readjust previously glued hammers (as is often done with hot glue). If you see one leaning that was glued a few minutes earlier, better to let it dry and then burn it over later. Very few flanges required travel paper. Overall flange friction, whips and shanks, is fairly consistent. Trimming and / or sanding off the hammer shank (tube) stubs after the hammer glue has dried creates a black powder, some of which migrates into the hollow tube only to escape later on to your nice, clean backchecks. Break up the fibrous material in the tubes with a wire and vacuum out, or else allow the shanks to hang vertical and shake-'n-tap the powder out. Am probably forgetting something. Will post more when I know (or remember) more. I know that Bruce Clark is storehouse of knowledge here, but I am also interested in varied input and experience from working techs. Thanks -- Nick Gravagne, RPT AST Mechanical Engineering -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20100623/da19f8d7/attachment.htm>
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