[pianotech] Rib/Panel Clamping Methods - was: Fire hose failure!

Greg Newell gnewell at ameritech.net
Tue Jun 15 19:14:38 MDT 2010


See below.

Greg Newell
Greg's Piano Forté
www.gregspianoforte.com
216-226-3791 (office)
216-470-8634 (mobile)

You wrote;
The things that bother me about vacuum bagging are these.

If you're not using a big radius rib, something has to hold 
the panel in close enough proximity to the rib radius to keep 
the ribs contained within whatever guide you build. An 90cm 
rib, for instance at 9M radius has a crown height of about 
11.3mm. With the rib ends over 11mm above the board, and your 
clamping guides shorter than the 5mm or so rib end thickness, 
you're 6mm short of an index with the panel lying flat on the 
table. Propping up the edges of the panel would work, but if 
you have multiple rib radii, wouldn't things get a tad strange 
and cumbersome?


Well, the ribs could be glued either one or a few at a time making the
process somewhat easier. I was thinking of attaching one end with a  spring
clamp or even a screw that could later be removed and plugged to hold one
end. The other end would conform within the melamine pattern.




Assuming you have everything propped up and ready to go. You 
then have to apply glue to anywhere from say, 9 to 22 ribs all 
at once, depending on what you're building, and position them 
before the glue skins over. So what kind of glue are you 
using? It's probably not water based, like Titebond or liquid 
hide, or is it? If so, how can you do this?

Assuming everything else works out happily, your clamping 
pressure (unless you make a wide footprint caul for each rib) 
is limited to some fraction of atmospheric pressure. It looks 
like 12 PSI is about the best you'll do. Most everything but 
epoxy ought to reasonably have at least three or four times 
that. Some say a WHOLE LOT more than that. So what's the glue 
used that waits that long for setup, and doesn't need over 12 
PSI clamp pressure?


This is not what I read about vacuum clamping. As I understood it the force
is quite high indeed. I suppose that it remains to be seen. One of the
benefits to this type of clamping is the claim that the glue permeates the
pores of the wood better and makes a more lasting joint than otherwise
attainable.


Sorry, I don't see a benefit to vacuum bagging. It looks more 
involved, time consuming, expensive, at least potentially 
messy and at worst disastrous than building individual clamps. 
'Splain to me please, the real details.
Ron N


I'm not sure if there will be a benefit or not. Time and trial will tell. I
am at least willing to give it a try and find out. I hope the education
isn't too costly. Thanks for your input. 


Also, note the absence of accumulated past posts, except where 
specific comments were addressed.



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