[pianotech] Rib/Panel Clamping Methods - was: Fire hose failure!

Terry Farrell mfarrel2 at tampabay.rr.com
Mon Jun 14 03:31:56 MDT 2010


Greg,

I pretty much agree with what David has said, and I also use a setup  
very similar to his for clamping ribs to a panel. But I do like to  
hear about what other techniques others are using, and I'd enjoy  
hearing more details about how you do yours. Like David, I have a hard  
time imagining that vacuum bagging would be easier for a one-off  
soundboard ribbing.

David's last sentence (quite sure I have this correct David....) is  
that by clamping the rib to the panel in a caul of the same radius of  
the rib, you are actually making the rib an additional 8 mm taller (if  
your panel is 8 mm). Now of course that is not entirely true because  
the grain angle of the panel is not nearly parallel to the rib - so  
the panel does not have the same resistance to compression forces that  
the zone of the rib closest to the panel has - but never-the-less, it  
does add to the rib - and you are adding no additional weight - so  
it's a stiffness freebie. If you are not pressing your ribs/panel in a  
radiused caul, you loose that potential benefit. How much is that  
benefit? I don't know - I presume it is fairly small, but real.

Do you glue all your ribs on at once? How do you handle squeeze-out  
cleanup? What kind of glue are you using. Do you make a rib- 
positioning template for each soundboard design? Are you using  
radiused, laminated (or cut) ribs? Are you using original rib arrays?  
Original rib scales?

I presume by a cut rib you mean a solid rib with a radius cut into it  
and a built-up rib is a rib laminated to a target radius?

I've done quite a bit of vacuum bagging - pinblocks, laminated rib  
slabs, even an entire 3-ply laminated panel for a 7'+ Bluthner - but  
it seems to me better and easier to glue on the ribs one at a time in  
a radiused caul.

Please share whatever you are willing to about your process. Thanks!

Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano, Inc.

On Jun 13, 2010, at 11:54 PM, Greg Newell wrote:

> David,
> 	Not sure what you mean by the last sentence. If you've made the ribs
> radiused in a caul what further need do you have for a caul? At that  
> point
> your just attaching ribs to the board and with the melamine cut in a
> negative rib pattern trying to prevent them from sliding around  
> while the
> bag draws down the vacuum. The ribs already have the radius needed  
> and the
> board will conform to them. I'm assuming built up ribs not cut ribs.
>
> Greg Newell
> Greg's Piano Forté
> www.gregspianoforte.com
> 216-226-3791 (office)
> 216-470-8634 (mobile)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org]  
> On Behalf
> Of David Love
> Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 1:39 AM
> To: pianotech at ptg.org
> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Fire hose failure!
>
> I suppose if you were making the same board over and over again but  
> since
> I'm not it's a lot of additional work.  Also, one thing that happens  
> is that
> the ribs are pressed down onto the panel and into a caul matching  
> the radius
> of the ribs (even though the ribs are crowned) which is harder to  
> manage
> with a vacuum press.
>
> David Love
> www.davidlovepianos.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org]  
> On Behalf
> Of Greg Newell
> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 9:46 PM
> To: pianotech at ptg.org
> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Fire hose failure!
>
> You sure about that? If you use a template made of that melamine  
> stuff to
> locate the ribs and tape the board to the melamine it works quite  
> well. Cut
> slots into the melamine and the ribs sit in the cut slots and are then
> sandwiched to the soundboard locating them well and preventing their
> movement while the bag vacuum clamps it all together. I'm assuming  
> ribs that
> aren't flat. Works quite well actually.
>
> Greg Newell
> Greg's Piano Forté
> www.gregspianoforte.com
> 216-226-3791 (office)
> 216-470-8634 (mobile)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org]  
> On Behalf
> Of David Love
> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 9:30 PM
> To: pianotech at ptg.org
> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Fire hose failure!
>
> Doesn't work for ribbing.
>
> David Love
> www.davidlovepianos.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org]  
> On Behalf
> Of Greg Newell
> Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 2:58 PM
> To: pianotech at ptg.org
> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Fire hose failure!
>
> A large vacuum bag.
>
> Greg Newell
> Greg's Piano Forté
> www.gregspianoforte.com
> 216-226-3791 (office)
> 216-470-8634 (mobile)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org]  
> On Behalf
> Of David Love
> Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 11:15 PM
> To: pianotech at ptg.org
> Subject: [pianotech] Fire hose failure!
>
> Ribbing a board today I discovered that my pneumatic clamps  
> (firehoses) had
> all sprung leaks to the extent that my compressor wouldn't keep  
> quite enough
> air pressure (argh).  So, while I did fashion a remedy for the short  
> term
> I'm shopping to replace the fire hose material with something a bit  
> more
> air-o-dynamic.  Any suggestions?
>
> David Love
> www.davidlovepianos.com
>
>
>



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