Brian, that's probably an adhesion problem and not directly connected to the lacquer hardness. A good cleaning and sanding will give you good adhesion. The other thing you need to do is not to dry spray on the first coat. You need to wet the first coat enough to bit into the old finish. And of course you don't want to put on to much lacquer. That will give you a problem no matter how hard the finish is. Al - High Point, NC From: Brian Trout Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 9:19 AM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: Re: [pianotech] finishing a plate Joe, I agree whole heartedly with your post. I do have a question, though, as if someone is gonna go ahead and refinish a plate, this question is gonna come up, at least with some brands of noteriety... How hard is your finish? The reason for the quesiton is, how do you handle the backscale area? S&S uses the backscale termination bars. M&H uses individual aliquots (sp?). Some techs go so far as to tune the backscale with those things. I've seen plates that had thick coats of finish in that area and beautiful clear coats only to see the aliquots or bars make a total mess of the finish. It's amazing how fluid some finishes are and how those individual aliquots will "swim" and "squirm" as a piano gets strung leaving a mess hard enough to get to look like anything decent let alone actually move those little things around with any precision and expect them to stay there. Maybe not directly in line with the question at hand, but like I said, it's likely a question that's gonna come up. Whatcha think? Any methods you've used? Do you calculate where they'll be and stick 'em on the plate before finishing? Go very thin on the finish in that area? Use a finish that will harden enough that those things stay on top? I've tended towards very thin finish there but would be curious as to what others think. Brian (P.S., this is the second attempt. When I hit "reply" last time, I think it just sent it to Joe only. I wanted to throw this out for the whole list. Sorry it's a little late in the discussion, but still something I'm curious to hear how others deal with.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: joegarrett at earthlink.net To: pianotech at ptg.org Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:16:20 -0800 Subject: Re: [pianotech] finishing a plate William, I have seen some really nice plates done with "rattle cans". However, I've seen a whole bunch of nasty looking plates done with "rattle cans" also. It does take some expertise and diligence. My shop teacher told us: A finish is only as good as the preparation of the surface to be finished." That is the key factor, IMNSHO!<G> I have done 2 plates that way. One that had major chemical contamination. The entire plate was sanded, (almost to the metal). Then, it was coated with Shellac. Then it was primered with a thick primer, (Black). Then wet sanded to be as soft as a baby's behind. Then, several coats of a very good Spray Paint Gold, (There are many and varied choices in this category). Lastly, the whole plate was coated with an Acrylic Clear, (don't recall the name, but that really gave the plate a "finished" look.<G> Hope that helps. Regards, Joe Joe Garrett, R.P.T. (Oregon) Captain, Tool Police Squares R I ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: joegarrett at earthlink.net To: pianotech at ptg.org Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:16:20 -0800 Subject: Re: [pianotech] finishing a plate William asked: "Is it sacrilege to finish a plate with spray cans? If not, what product can someone suggest for a clear coat? Also, what is acceptable to touch up the black? I have heard of people using magic markers and such. Any input would be appreciated." William, I have seen some really nice plates done with "rattle cans". However, I've seen a whole bunch of nasty looking plates done with "rattle cans" also. It does take some expertise and diligence. My shop teacher told us: A finish is only as good as the preparation of the surface to be finished." That is the key factor, IMNSHO!<G> I have done 2 plates that way. One that had major chemical contamination. The entire plate was sanded, (almost to the metal). Then, it was coated with Shellac. Then it was primered with a thick primer, (Black). Then wet sanded to be as soft as a baby's behind. Then, several coats of a very good Spray Paint Gold, (There are many and varied choices in this category). Lastly, the whole plate was coated with an Acrylic Clear, (don't recall the name, but that really gave the plate a "finished" look.<G> Hope that helps. Regards, Joe Joe Garrett, R.P.T. (Oregon) Captain, Tool Police Squares R I ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection. 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