I'm sure it is something reasonably simple. A 94.3% probability it involves the jack. I think it is the jack center. The damper isn't going to be involved, but you can engage the damper pedal to get it out of the way. David Ilvedson, RPT Pacifica, CA 94044 ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- From: <rsfinley at charter.net> To: pianotech at ptg.org Received: 2/14/2010 6:15:17 PM Subject: Re: [pianotech] pianotech Digest, Vol 16, Issue 171 >The suggestions so far have been very interesting. I never thought that a bearing >could heat up due to friction but I see that it is possible and wouldn't require much to >cause it to seize up. That might explain the delay f several seconds before I can play >the note again. >I am rather baffled that this only happens when the action is installed in the piano >and I cannot reproduce it when the action is on the table and simulating the effect >of the string with a book so the hammer has a target instead of flying up to the end >of it's travel. >Thanks again, >Robert >---- pianotech-request at ptg.org wrote: >> Send pianotech mailing list submissions to >> pianotech at ptg.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> pianotech-request at ptg.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> pianotech-owner at ptg.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of pianotech digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: More on Yamaha Sticking C6 Key Problem (J Patrick Draine) >> 2. Re: More on Yamaha Sticking C6 Key Problem (David Love) >> 3. Re: things in pianos (Ed Foote) >> 4. Re: More on Yamaha Sticking C6 Key Problem (David Love) >> 5. Re: Advice about intermittent note on Yamaha grand (Terry Farrell) >> 6. Re: Advice about intermittent note on Yamaha grand (Ron Nossaman) >> 7. Re: Advice about intermittent note on Yamaha grand (Terry Farrell) >> 8. Re: pianotech Digest, Vol 16, Issue 170 (Marshall Gisondi) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:28:36 -0500 >> From: J Patrick Draine <jpdraine at gmail.com> >> To: pianotech at ptg.org >> Subject: Re: [pianotech] More on Yamaha Sticking C6 Key Problem >> Message-ID: >> <fdf610641002141628v5cf992c0k8cf52aacf7831833 at mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> Hi Robert, >> Lots of possibilities, so that seems like the logical next step. If you're >> still stumped on Tuesday (don't have a resistance gauge), bring the hammer >> and wippen assemblies to Tuesday night's chapter meeting at Brandeis. >> Patrick Draine >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 5:52 PM, <rsfinley at charter.net> wrote: >> >> > I haven't removed the whippen assembly for C6 yet to examine it in >> > detail. Maybe I should do that. >> > >> > >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: ><http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20100214/dbe58712/attachment- >0001.htm> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 16:38:57 -0800 >> From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> >> To: <pianotech at ptg.org> >> Subject: Re: [pianotech] More on Yamaha Sticking C6 Key Problem >> Message-ID: <001001caadd7$42daa640$c88ff2c0$@net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> It certainly seems from your description that the jack center could be a bit tight. >You should be able to tell by rolling it and releasing it comparing it with others around >it. Try lubricating with some Protek. That often helps on Yamaha centers that tend >to develop excess friction periodically for some reason. While you're at it lubricate >the hammer flange centers and the wippen centers. Also, it could be that the >balancier is regulated too low combined (perhaps) with a weak repetition spring. If >the jack protrudes to far above the balancier it will be inhibited from getting back >under the knuckle. Increase the tension on the rep spring so that you get a very >positive rise. The speed should be similar to how fast your arm would move to toss a >tennis ball about 18 inches in the air (one way to think about it). Also, be sure that >the jack is aligned correctly with the back of the knuckle core. If you think the >damper may be influencing things check the repletion wi > th >> the damper pedal engaged. >> >> David Love >> www.davidlovepianos.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On >Behalf Of rsfinley at charter.net >> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 2:53 PM >> To: pianotech at ptg.org >> Subject: [pianotech] More on Yamaha Sticking C6 Key Problem >> >> Here are some more observations on the intermittent problem with the C6 on my >Yamaha G1 Piano. >> >> When I play the key the first time, the note usually sounds, but if I play >repeatedly and quickly after that, it stops sounding. I have to wait a few seconds >after that for the key to recover, before it will play again. It seems there is a delay >of a few seconds when part of the action is slowly getting back into the position >when the key can be played. I am puzzled why there is this delay. >> >> When I take the action out and put it on a table, I cannot reproduce the sticking >key effect for C6, even if I simulate the presence of the string using a hard book >held some distance above the hammer (of course the hammer will not rebound in the >same way as for a string). I can cause the hammer to move in fast repetition without >any blocking effect. The sticking key effect only occurs when the action is back in >the piano. Although I doubt it, I am wondering if this is a combined effect of the >damper and the action causing this sluggish operation, although the damper for C6 >seems to be working fine. >> >> When I look at action for C6 (difficult to see everything due to the proximity of >the actions of the other keys, everything appears to be intact. I haven't removed >the whippen assembly for C6 yet to examine it in detail. Maybe I should do that. >> >> Could anyone throw more light on this? Thanks for your advice. >> >> Robert >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:43:52 -0500 >> From: Ed Foote <a440a at aol.com> >> To: pianotech at ptg.org >> Subject: Re: [pianotech] things in pianos >> Message-ID: <8CC7BEF14AB35A2-32B0-258F2 at webmail-m015.sysops.aol.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> >> Greetings, >> When I arrived in Nashville in 1976, many of the studio pianos had been >tuned, and only tuned, for years. Most of the work was done by non-sighted >tuners. There had been a course at the Tennessee School for the Blind, and that is >who was tuning music row. As I began getting around these pianos, I realized how >much stuff there was in them. Guitar picks by the handfuls, but also the pills were >amazing. I didnt' know there were that many different kinds. I think they were >popular in the 50's-70's, and there were a lot of them, and a lot of roaches, (the >kind with no legs). >> There have been others, a missing son's medal, etc. ( I posted that sometime in >Dec. '96), a snake, which I didn't ultimately have to deal with, and a large wad of >money. And then there are some things which discretion dictates no mention, oops, >too late... >> Regards, >> >> Ed Foote RPT >> http://www.uk-piano.org/edfoote/index.html >> >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: ><http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20100214/3d391980/attachment- >0001.htm> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 16:45:33 -0800 >> From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos at comcast.net> >> To: <pianotech at ptg.org> >> Subject: Re: [pianotech] More on Yamaha Sticking C6 Key Problem >> Message-ID: <001401caadd8$2ed06170$8c712450$@net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> I forgot to mention that when you regulate the balancier height do so by rolling >the jack tender and the top of the jack should just barely brush the knuckle but >should not be inhibited in any way from returning to its rest position. Be sure that >the repetition spring is regulated to the correct tension before you do that. >> >> David Love >> www.davidlovepianos.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On >Behalf Of David Love >> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 4:39 PM >> To: pianotech at ptg.org >> Subject: Re: [pianotech] More on Yamaha Sticking C6 Key Problem >> >> It certainly seems from your description that the jack center could be a bit tight. >You should be able to tell by rolling it and releasing it comparing it with others around >it. Try lubricating with some Protek. That often helps on Yamaha centers that tend >to develop excess friction periodically for some reason. While you're at it lubricate >the hammer flange centers and the wippen centers. Also, it could be that the >balancier is regulated too low combined (perhaps) with a weak repetition spring. If >the jack protrudes to far above the balancier it will be inhibited from getting back >under the knuckle. Increase the tension on the rep spring so that you get a very >positive rise. The speed should be similar to how fast your arm would move to toss a >tennis ball about 18 inches in the air (one way to think about it). Also, be sure that >the jack is aligned correctly with the back of the knuckle core. If you think the >damper may be influencing things check the repletion wi > th >> the damper pedal engaged. >> >> David Love >> www.davidlovepianos.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On >Behalf Of rsfinley at charter.net >> Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 2:53 PM >> To: pianotech at ptg.org >> Subject: [pianotech] More on Yamaha Sticking C6 Key Problem >> >> Here are some more observations on the intermittent problem with the C6 on my >Yamaha G1 Piano. >> >> When I play the key the first time, the note usually sounds, but if I play >repeatedly and quickly after that, it stops sounding. I have to wait a few seconds >after that for the key to recover, before it will play again. It seems there is a delay >of a few seconds when part of the action is slowly getting back into the position >when the key can be played. I am puzzled why there is this delay. >> >> When I take the action out and put it on a table, I cannot reproduce the sticking >key effect for C6, even if I simulate the presence of the string using a hard book >held some distance above the hammer (of course the hammer will not rebound in the >same way as for a string). I can cause the hammer to move in fast repetition without >any blocking effect. The sticking key effect only occurs when the action is back in >the piano. Although I doubt it, I am wondering if this is a combined effect of the >damper and the action causing this sluggish operation, although the damper for C6 >seems to be working fine. >> >> When I look at action for C6 (difficult to see everything due to the proximity of >the actions of the other keys, everything appears to be intact. I haven't removed >the whippen assembly for C6 yet to examine it in detail. Maybe I should do that. >> >> Could anyone throw more light on this? Thanks for your advice. >> >> Robert >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:52:13 -0500 >> From: Terry Farrell <mfarrel2 at tampabay.rr.com> >> To: pianotech at ptg.org >> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Advice about intermittent note on Yamaha >> grand >> Message-ID: <3627CD55-EDF5-4D41-8721-CEA9076D5B07 at tampabay.rr.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes >> >> If only some of the fetal grands I run across would grow into baby >> grands...... ;-) >> >> Terry Farrell >> >> On Feb 14, 2010, at 10:30 AM, Ron Nossaman wrote: >> >> > pianofritz50 at aol.com wrote: >> > > Kawai & Yamaha & Steinway refer to a "Baby Grand" class of pianos. >> >> Maybe some piano tuners don't refer to a classification of "Baby >> >> Grands", but certain manufacturers certainly do. >> > >> > Techs don't typically use the term, and if manufacturers were >> > selling to techs, they likely wouldn't either. Manufacturers sell to >> > dealers, who sell to the public, most of whom typically do use the >> > term. I'm still waiting for a couple of these "babies" that I >> > service to grow into pianos, but no luck yet. >> > Ron N >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:03:25 -0600 >> From: Ron Nossaman <rnossaman at cox.net> >> To: pianotech at ptg.org >> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Advice about intermittent note on Yamaha >> grand >> Message-ID: <4B789D5D.90400 at cox.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> Terry Farrell wrote: >> > If only some of the fetal grands I run across would grow into baby >> > grands...... ;-) >> >> Really. In spite of some of the owners watering them >> regularly, the darned things just won't grow. Mildew, maybe, >> but not bigger. <G> >> Ron N >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:00:19 -0500 >> From: Terry Farrell <mfarrel2 at tampabay.rr.com> >> To: pianotech at ptg.org >> Subject: Re: [pianotech] Advice about intermittent note on Yamaha >> grand >> Message-ID: <7A8890C2-FEF8-428C-94FA-D6FC4D7CB449 at tampabay.rr.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes >> >> Why? I mean it is acoustic, is it not? Like acoustic guitar and >> electric guitar - Yamaha C1 and Yamaha CP-80. Digital piano? Seems >> pretty digital to me. >> >> Terry Farrell >> >> On Feb 14, 2010, at 10:54 AM, David Weiss wrote: >> >> > I will use the term baby grand when speaking with a client, but >> > otherwise I >> > will refer to grands by model number or length. >> > >> > The term I refuse to use, even if subjected to torture, is "acoustic >> > piano". >> > Conversely the term "digital piano" has never passed my lips. That >> > however, >> > is another subject. >> > >> > David Weiss >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:01:30 -0800 >> From: Marshall Gisondi <pianotune05 at hotmail.com> >> To: <pianotech at ptg.org> >> Subject: Re: [pianotech] pianotech Digest, Vol 16, Issue 170 >> Message-ID: <BLU107-W22112B849EF6CD2C5BC9E2B94A0 at phx.gbl> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> >> He y TOm, >> >> Wow pretty cool, I hope that carpet wasn't in the piano. :-)oh and that carpet is >interesting too burber? >> >> Marshall >> >> Marshall Gisondi Piano Technician >> Marshall's Piano Service >> pianotune05 at hotmail.com >> 215-510-9400 >> Graduate of The School of Piano Technology for the Blind >www.pianotuningschool.org Vancouver, WA >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: pianotech-request at ptg.org >> Subject: pianotech Digest, Vol 16, Issue 170 >> To: pianotech at ptg.org >> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:21:25 -0700 >> >> Send pianotech mailing list submissions to >> pianotech at ptg.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> pianotech-request at ptg.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> pianotech-owner at ptg.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of pianotech digest..." >> >> >> --Forwarded Message Attachment-- >> From: tomtuner at verizon.net >> To: pianotech at ptg.org >> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 19:20:48 -0500 >> Subject: Re: [pianotech] things in pianos >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> You mean like this? >> >> Tom D. >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. >> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469228/direct/01/ >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: ><http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20100214/19aae307/attachment. >htm> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pianotech mailing list >> pianotech at ptg.org >> http://ptg.org/mailman/listinfo/pianotech >> >> >> End of pianotech Digest, Vol 16, Issue 171 >> ******************************************
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