To Israel and others: I received a very gracious and thoughtful private email from Todd today. May I suggest that we let this dog go to sleep now? As far as I am concerned, Mathew Todd is welcome here. Will From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Israel Stein Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 6:02 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: [pianotech] Action removal Phil, You do miss the point here... The problem is that one cannot depend on getting simple answers to isolated questions in order to develop expertise in this trade - well, in any trade. When questions come from a context of observations and analysis, and the answers are then incorporated into an integrated body of knowledge that teaches the questioner a methodology of devising his or her own solution - learning is taking place. But when answers to these simple, isolated questions are merely used to deal with the problem at hand - and not incorporated into a growing methodology of problem solving - what you get is an illusion of learning. There are always those folks who think that they can learn this trade by picking people's brains for tidbits of information - whether in person, or via e-mail, or at chapter meetings, or by watching, or by lurking on lists. It doesn't work. These bits of information have to be integrated into some sort of systematic problem-solving approach whereby someone can start generating their own solutions to problems. Some people can do this work of knowledge integration themselves. Others require a mentor. But whenever anyone - like Will, or Joe Garrett before him - suggests to this guy that perhaps he should investigate some ways to do this in order to better take advantage of this list and start developing some real expertise - he snaps at them. Other newbies who started by asking the same sort of questions have over a similar period of time shown a growing sophistication in their approach to the trade - have used the answers given to develop a problem-solving methodology used for these sorts of simple issues. This guy here, any time someone suggests that perhaps it's time to get beyond this very elementary approach - especially in view of the extravagant claims being made on the website mentioned by Dave - gets all bent out of shape. It's OK to be a newbie and ask newbie questions - but one can't stay a newbie forever. And if this guy doesn't start taking some of the suggestions such as Will made to heart instead of getting on his high horse, that's what's he's going to end up being - a perpetual newbie... And, oh, by the way, fear not, this list will never get stilted and pedantic... Too many characters... :-) Israel Stein >If we are not allowed to ask questions on this list that have been >discussed before, it's going to become a very stilted and pedantic >forum. Remember if we don't like the question, we can always use the >delete key. >Phil Ryan >Miami Beach David Doremus wrote: > Honestly, what bothers me about Matthews questions is that he > advertises himself thusly /"Matthew's vast knowledge of pianos comes > from his association with fine piano technicians and /_registered > piano technicians_/ from around the country" /while constantly asking > questions that show a serious lack of understanding of basic piano > service or even problem solving. The best thing is to find and work > with a mentor rather than use this list to do your work for you. We > all, me especially, ask fairly dumb questions all the time, but not > such a constant stream while claiming expertise we don't have. I'm > with Will on this one, and not meaning it at all to put down new > technicians, I am constantly reminded how little I know by people like > Terry Farrel and Ron N and Joe G. > > --Dave > New Orleans > ( not at all trying to be a list keeper, but in the market for a > flame suit :-} ) > / > / > > > Mark Dierauf wrote: >> Thanks, Rob. Food for thought for the self-appointed keepers of the >> list! >> >> - Mark >> >> Rob McCall wrote: >>> Speaking for all the lurkers and newbies out there... >>> >>> I for one, like to see Matthew ask questions. I have a whole litany >>> of simple questions myself. Some, I'm just too shy to ask. Other >>> questions Matthew (or others) asks before I do. >>> >>> When I signed up for the list, I don't remember seeing a checklist >>> of "too simple questions to ask" or a requirement that questions be >>> challenging enough to be posted on the list. The list, at least how >>> I see it in my microcosm, is for EVERY piano technician out there, >>> whether they be newbies (I'll put myself down here), intermediate >>> (Matthew is probably in here), or the highly experienced (Ron N., >>> Joe Garret, David Anderson, come to mind). I know there are many more. >>> >>> For the stuff that's too easy or uninteresting, or like in my case, >>> possibly way over your head, either get a computer for Ed's pet >>> canary, so that he can respond, or you can do what I do -- use my >>> very special key for those particular emails. It's in the upper >>> right hand corner of my keyboard with a label that says "delete". :-) >>> >>> Respectfully, >>> >>> Rob McCall >>> Murrieta, CA >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20090915/cafeced5/attachment-0001.htm>
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