To the list:
Well, we have drifted into politics, but so be it for the moment. I'll try
not to slash anybody's tires or threaten family pets with my comments. J
I, for one, find Ric's comments intelligent and thoughtful. I don't think
he has an axe to grind here or even takes any pleasure in making comments
about America that others find negative. I would hope that others would
really listen to what he has to say and give it some thought, rather than
enter into Shoot the Messenger Mode as some have.
It is my observation that Americans tend to have a somewhat myopic and
self-centered view of themselves, and they expect the world to see them
through their eyes rather than their own. And Americans tend to forget that
the needs and concerns of other nations and cultures are often different
than ours, and give them too little consideration. That they are different
from ours does not make them wrong, or us wrong.
We live in times that are so politically fragmented and combative that we
have largely stopped truly listening to each other, and we mistake screaming
and accusing each other for communication. Moving forward requires that we
actually listen to one another and seriously consider the merits of
another's point of view. Democratic societies disintegrate when this
willingness to listen ceases.
Recently, I heard a comment that I found very profound: "The lifeblood of
democracy is compromise. Without it, the only thing that remains is force."
I ask my readers to give that some thought. Every day of our lives is
filled with compromise, and there is good compromise and bad compromise.
Anyone who has been married or has children knows the word well.
Like others, I have customers in gated communities. They are good people,
bad people, and everything in between; just like the rest of the world. And
the reasons they have for choosing to live in these places are varied.
Mr. Vetter makes the point that "They are people trying to escape the asylum
we call our modern culture". Which speaks to Ric's point that "where
pulling away from each other trying to find an illusionary little safe house
village where they
can attempt to close the outside world off. They will start (already have
in not a few cases) to make their own rules for society, their own mini
governments and their own little legal, police and defense systems.... a
tendency that will continue. Its quite sad to see Americans finding more
and more ways of not having more to do with each other rather than building
inter community relations, ties... keeping the glue that has defined what an
"American" is fresh and holding strong. "
Each of us has the right to make the choice of where we live and the reasons
why we live there. Some of us choose to move to the inner city to be an
engaged citizen trying to resurrect communities with deep problems. Others
move to gated communities and disengage from that part of our society that
they see as failing, and have essentially abandoned the rest of the society,
choosing to server their self interest only, and abandoning the problems of
the larger culture. This is particularly unfortunate in that these
successful people are able to live in these communities because they are
intelligent and capable. Without their participation in the larger society,
we lack the benefit of these talents, and the society is poorer for that.
So there is a cost to the continued health of our society when more and more
people opt out. If this kind of fragmentation continues, we become a
society of US and THEM. Indeed, we already are becoming just that. It is
an indisputable statistical fact that the rich are getting richer, and
everybody else is getting poorer - more and more wealth is concentrating in
the hands of fewer and fewer people, and that has accelerated during this
great economic crisis that we still find ourselves in. Who amongst us piano
technicians does not feel assaulted by these economic changes? It is not to
our benefit when fewer and fewer people feel they can afford our services.
Will Truitt
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Chuck Vetter
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:14 PM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Gated communities
Oh my!
Where to start? Rich, white, conservatives, in gated conservatives. What
then are rich, black, liberals who live in gated communities along side the
rich whites?They are people who are trying to escape the assylum we call our
modren culture. We are not victims of laissez faire policies. We, the entire
society, are victictims of "diversity at all cost" and political
correctness run rampant. We are told to celebrate diversity and accept the
most vile and immoral lifestyles as "just different'' and their values as
valid as our own. Hugo Chavez and Robert Mugabe (see news articals today)
are really nice people that should be understood in their own cultural
context. That is B.S. If theyrich can afford their lifestyle, good for them.
They are the people who frequently purchase, or donate money for expensive
things (like pianos). Tell me about the next time you service a fine
Bechstein or Bosey in the projects.
Sincerely,
Chuck Vetter
----- Original Message -----
From: Leslie Bartlett <mailto:l-bartlett at sbcglobal.net>
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Gated communities
Sorry, it seems to me a legitimate concern to people who work in
metropolitan areas where such communities proliferate..
les bartlett
_____
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of G Cousins
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:04 AM
To: pianotech
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Gated communities
Seriously Ric,
How do you really feel?
A PC (focused) society may just be one possible reason.
Maybe move somewhere that's better. Any suggestions? (on this planet)
IMHO Greatest country on earth, bar NONE!
Gerald P. Cousins, RPT and Citizen of The Unites States of America
PS Perhaps this thread could (should) move to another BB that caters to such
topics.
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: ricb at pianostemmer.no
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:55:11 +0100
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Gated communities
These things are an attest to a society where pulling away from each
other trying to find an illusionary little safe house village where they
can attempt to close the outside world off. They will start (already
have in not a few cases) to make their own rules for society, their own
mini governments and their own little legal, police and defense
systems.... a tendency that will continue. Its quite sad to see
Americans finding more and more ways of not having more to do with each
other rather then building inter community relations, ties... keeping
the glue that has defined what an "American" is fresh and holding
strong. Typically a refuge for the rather rich, and rather white
conservatives... when the rest of the US gets poor enough... these walls
and the people hiding inside will get ripped apart by an angry mob the
likes of which the US has yet to encounter and evidently is incapable of
yet comprehending.
I suppose one good thing will come out of the self imposed destruction
that awaits the US.... it will show the world once and for all how
flawed unbridled laissez faire politics is.. how fated any society
becomes in such predictable fashion that treads that path. It leads
ironically enough towards a breaking up of a society into more and more
separate social entities eventually disintegrating into a short lived
period of near anarchical condition... followed by a long period of some
form or another of localized anything but democratic authoritarian mini
states in which the exact freedoms so fanatically sought by those who
originally pushed the country down that road are near totally lacking....
You might as well have been born in 14th century central Europe.... What
they do to your personal business practices at present is like totally
unimportant :)
RicB
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: ricb at pianostemmer.no
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 11:57:39 +0100
Subject: Re: [pianotech] Gated communities
List..
sorry that went to the list... it was meant to be a private note.
Haven't used this list much lately and forget how easily it is to punch
the send button a second to soon. Didnt mean to bring politics onto the
list forum.
Cheers
RicB
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: da88ve at gmail.com
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:50:23 -0700
Subject: [pianotech] call-backs you can't charge for
A client called and said her daughter hears several buzzing
notes. I just tuned it a few weeks ago and didn't hear any
buzzing. But I go to check it out. Client wasn't home --
forgot I was coming. Fortunately there was a housekeeper who
let me in. I play up and down the scale, and sure enough,
there's some buzzing underneath somewhere. I open the bottom
panel and see two small, rusty woodscrews lodged between the
plate and the bottom board, one of them against the soundboard.
I remove them, and, "Presto!" -- no more buzzing. (Why couldn't
they have buzzed when I was tuning a few weeks ago?)
Suddenly client shows up (was walking the dogs). I show her
the screws, tell her there's no more buzzing, and she says, "Oh,
thank you soooo much!" in a tone that's so grateful I can tell
she thinks I came to remove the problem as a huge gratis favor,
and that certainly I don't intend to charge anything. (When
they say, "Do I owe you anything?" then you KNOW you'd better
say, "No, that's OK -- I was in the neighborhood" or something
similar.)
I spent a half-hour driving, two minutes finding the
problem, ten minutes waiting around for the client, and another
half-hour back to the shop -- 1 1/4 hours for no compensation.
Sometimes you just get the "vibe" from the client that they
think any buzz, noise, tinnyness, or other quirk that shows up
within, say, a month after you tuned it, is your fault, since it
wasn't doing that before you tuned it, and therefore must've
been caused by your "tuning" and you should come fix it for
free.
Oh sure, you can say, "I have a $xx minimum billing for
service calls," but then you lose the customer and any referrals
from them.
I've even done 12 hours' extra labor on a large
reconditioning job to get rid of problems they implied were my
fault, even though these things were not in the job estimate,
but from their tone of voice and attitude you can tell that it's
either fix everything for free or get into a big argument, much
unpleasantness, and maybe even a lawsuit.
But of course you can't deduct the value of your time on
your tax return, since the IRS doesn't see your time as being
worth anything.
--David Nereson, RPT
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: tompiano at bellsouth.net
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:14:57 -0500
Subject: Re: [pianotech] call-backs you can't charge for
No you can't deduct that from your taxes, but those are the type of
situations which keeps you in business. It's call good old customer service,
going the extra mile to keep someone happy. Something which is lacking in
many business rules books these days.
Tom Servinsky
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Nereson" <da88ve at gmail.com>
To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:50 AM
Subject: [pianotech] call-backs you can't charge for
> A client called and said her daughter hears several buzzing notes. I
> just tuned it a few weeks ago and didn't hear any buzzing. But I go to
> check it out. Client wasn't home -- forgot I was coming. Fortunately
> there was a housekeeper who let me in. I play up and down the scale, and
> sure enough, there's some buzzing underneath somewhere. I open the bottom
> panel and see two small, rusty woodscrews lodged between the plate and the
> bottom board, one of them against the soundboard. I remove them, and,
> "Presto!" -- no more buzzing. (Why couldn't they have buzzed when I was
> tuning a few weeks ago?)
> Suddenly client shows up (was walking the dogs). I show her the
> screws, tell her there's no more buzzing, and she says, "Oh, thank you
> soooo much!" in a tone that's so grateful I can tell she thinks I came to
> remove the problem as a huge gratis favor, and that certainly I don't
> intend to charge anything. (When they say, "Do I owe you anything?" then
> you KNOW you'd better say, "No, that's OK -- I was in the neighborhood" or
> something similar.)
> I spent a half-hour driving, two minutes finding the problem, ten
> minutes waiting around for the client, and another half-hour back to the
> shop -- 1 1/4 hours for no compensation. Sometimes you just get the "vibe"
> from the client that they think any buzz, noise, tinnyness, or other quirk
> that shows up within, say, a month after you tuned it, is your fault,
> since it wasn't doing that before you tuned it, and therefore must've been
> caused by your "tuning" and you should come fix it for free.
> Oh sure, you can say, "I have a $xx minimum billing for service calls,"
> but then you lose the customer and any referrals from them.
> I've even done 12 hours' extra labor on a large reconditioning job to
> get rid of problems they implied were my fault, even though these things
> were not in the job estimate, but from their tone of voice and attitude
> you can tell that it's either fix everything for free or get into a big
> argument, much unpleasantness, and maybe even a lawsuit.
> But of course you can't deduct the value of your time on your tax
> return, since the IRS doesn't see your time as being worth anything.
> --David Nereson, RPT
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: surfdog at metrocast.net
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:45:30 -0500
Subject: Re: [pianotech] call-backs you can't charge for
Hi David:
You are still the master of your destiny, so the choice is entirely yours
whether or not to charge for this visit. Most of the time I would, for the
kind of reasons you give. Sometimes I don't charge my regular, good,
longtime customers - but they always offer to compensate me because they do
place a value on my time. My choice.
One way around this is to make clear to the customer before the visit that
there will likely be a service charge if the cause of the buzzing is
unrelated to anything you did when you were there to perform your services.
If I find my missing tool inside the piano, obviously I would not charge
them.
It is important to remember that one of the ways our customers get their
cues on how much value to place on OUR time from US. The irony is that if
we give away too much or charge too little, then too many people will
correspondingly place little value to it. That is obviously the opposite
reaction to what we would hope for from our customers.
If the customer needs the explanation you just gave to us as to your
investment of time and loss of work time that could be compensated
elsewhere, give it to her and unapologetically, politely, and with a
friendly smile on your face, HAND HER THE BILL.
As for myself, I choose not to work for people who want me to work for free.
My policy where there is a honest dispute is to give a little but not a lot.
Giving away 12 hours labor free for work that you did not contract for falls
in that category of giving away a lot. If you feel bullied by the customer,
it is because you allowed yourself to be bullied. Losing that customer is no
great loss because you don't want that kind of customer. And you likely
will not retain them as a customer after you have given everything away,
because they know they have worked you and so don't wish to face their
victim.
The vast majority of our customers are nice, honest, and fair people whom it
is a pleasure to work for. But not everyone is, and we have to say no on
occasion. And we are the only person who can make that choice to say no.
Best wishes,
Will Truitt
-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf
Of David Nereson
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 6:50 AM
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Subject: [pianotech] call-backs you can't charge for
A client called and said her daughter hears several buzzing
notes. I just tuned it a few weeks ago and didn't hear any
buzzing. But I go to check it out. Client wasn't home --
forgot I was coming. Fortunately there was a housekeeper who
let me in. I play up and down the scale, and sure enough,
there's some buzzing underneath somewhere. I open the bottom
panel and see two small, rusty woodscrews lodged between the
plate and the bottom board, one of them against the soundboard.
I remove them, and, "Presto!" -- no more buzzing. (Why couldn't
they have buzzed when I was tuning a few weeks ago?)
Suddenly client shows up (was walking the dogs). I show her
the screws, tell her there's no more buzzing, and she says, "Oh,
thank you soooo much!" in a tone that's so grateful I can tell
she thinks I came to remove the problem as a huge gratis favor,
and that certainly I don't intend to charge anything. (When
they say, "Do I owe you anything?" then you KNOW you'd better
say, "No, that's OK -- I was in the neighborhood" or something
similar.)
I spent a half-hour driving, two minutes finding the
problem, ten minutes waiting around for the client, and another
half-hour back to the shop -- 1 1/4 hours for no compensation.
Sometimes you just get the "vibe" from the client that they
think any buzz, noise, tinnyness, or other quirk that shows up
within, say, a month after you tuned it, is your fault, since it
wasn't doing that before you tuned it, and therefore must've
been caused by your "tuning" and you should come fix it for
free.
Oh sure, you can say, "I have a $xx minimum billing for
service calls," but then you lose the customer and any referrals
from them.
I've even done 12 hours' extra labor on a large
reconditioning job to get rid of problems they implied were my
fault, even though these things were not in the job estimate,
but from their tone of voice and attitude you can tell that it's
either fix everything for free or get into a big argument, much
unpleasantness, and maybe even a lawsuit.
But of course you can't deduct the value of your time on
your tax return, since the IRS doesn't see your time as being
worth anything.
--David Nereson, RPT
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: mkurta1 at comcast.net
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:33:38 -0600
Subject: Re: [pianotech] call-backs you can't charge for
David, I can see both sides of that question-to charge or not to charge?
My thought is that the customer will remember how you handled their callback
far longer than the original tuning you did, good or bad. Positive public
relations are hard to come by, and is the stuff that makes you a hero in
their eyes. Here is an opportunity to gain a chunk, and as you pointed
out, they will tell others.
By the same token there is a line over which one is taken advantage of
and this judgement should be made on a case by case basis. We should not be
considered doormats. However in my experience those times are really rare.
We choose to be members of a SERVICE industry, and how we handle customer
concerns is up to us.
Have you noticed how we are now greeted in stores lately, and how
friendly those folks are? Also it seems much easier to return an item
nowadays from just awhile ago. This looks like a trend and it might be
worthwhile for us to be aware of it and pay attention to our public
relations too.
Mike Kurta, RPT
Chicago chapter
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: AlliedPianoCraft at hotmail.com
To: pianotech at ptg.org
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 08:47:31 -0500
Subject: Re: [pianotech] call-backs you can't charge for
William, Mike, great thoughtful answers.
David............If you felt abused, you probably were.
Al
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Mike Kurta" <mkurta1 at comcast.net>
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 8:33 AM
To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
Subject: Re: [pianotech] call-backs you can't charge for
> David, I can see both sides of that question-to charge or not to
> charge? My thought is that the customer will remember how you handled
> their callback far longer than the original tuning you did, good or bad.
> Positive public relations are hard to come by, and is the stuff that makes
> you a hero in their eyes. Here is an opportunity to gain a chunk, and as
> you pointed out, they will tell others.
> By the same token there is a line over which one is taken advantage of
> and this judgement should be made on a case by case basis. We should not
> be considered doormats. However in my experience those times are really
> rare. We choose to be members of a SERVICE industry, and how we handle
> customer concerns is up to us.
> Have you noticed how we are now greeted in stores lately, and how
> friendly those folks are? Also it seems much easier to return an item
> nowadays from just awhile ago. This looks like a trend and it might be
> worthwhile for us to be aware of it and pay attention to our public
> relations too.
> Mike Kurta, RPT
> Chicago chapter
>
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