Steven First, I am not a RPT, nor have I attempted the PTG test. I have been trained differently than most on this list, however due to my training I can actually hear your temperament. I have the PTG guide to the RPT exam and have read numerous articles in the PTG Journal. My training was from the Yamaha system, followed by factory training from Kawai and watching concert technicians from numerous factories, and concert halls. I have also trained in Germany and found the system to be exactly the same as the Japanese. From my training from the Japanese system and also reading the PTG I can understand both systems. I own a PRCT, however 99.9% of my tuning is aural. I have a good understanding of the PRCT in relation to reading and understanding. Before I go further, Dean Reyburn may be of help to you. I think there is a forum with Reyburn. Secondly, I do not tune with contiguous thirds... wasn't in my training.. And too hard for me.. I have tried it... From no other reason other than from repetition, I find the system I use to be the most comfortable. Find your system. I do not understand the complete process of the master tuning, so excuse my ignorance. The Yamaha test is one line on a graph. And for a UI upright. There are other graphs for other models, and at the Yamaha academy, there are different levels of test, i.e concert piano tuning is the strictest.. However the Japanese method is "please do it our way", which means "do it our way , or else" So, let's make your PRCT readings the master tuning. You haven't got any other choice. This will have to be your perfect tuning. A4 to A3 ....good Now a couple of examples from your temperament. I read the following: F3 to A3 major third.. A fraction slow..F is Sharp. F#3 to A#3 a little fast but compared to the 1st 3rd, it speeds up too quickly. Next third, a little slow, but again the progression is not consistent. G#3 to C4 speeds up quickly. To look at your temperament, get a piece of graph paper, and make A3 on the zero line or on minus one. Then fit your other measurements on the graph corresponding to your numbers. Eg F3 is above 0 and F#3 is nearly minus one. On the Yamaha graph, A3 is minus one (A4 is 0) and all notes below D#4 is minus one, and from D#4 to A4 is zero. Now as you know every piano is different, so use this as a guide. Now don't be disheartened, you CAN tune a temperament, you just need a little refinement. I am trying to give good criticism, without getting picky. AND the PRCT can be a little confusing if it changes partials....but your ear will teach you. Now not telling you what to do, but you did ask about the sequence of temperament... The sequence I was taught was A4 A3, A3 D4, D4 G3, G3 C4, C4 F3, F3 A#3, A#3 D#4, D#4 G#3, G#3 C#4, C#4 F#3, F#3 B3, B3 E4, F3 F4 checking 4th and 5th. 4th beating slightly faster than 5th. Listen progression 3rds, 6ths, listen to 5ths 4ths and any other interval you may fancy. Ballpark is 4ths beat 1 bps and 5th 1 bp2seconds. There are actual guides and beat rates from Yamaha however some readers might not agree, so I am trying to be politically correct. Now on the concert instruments I tune, or even my frequently tuned pianos, I use a different process. ( One of the PTG Journals, or it could have been the "Guide to passing the RPT exam" gives you metronome numbers to help learn and memorise the beating speeds.) I start A4 A3 same as you. Then, A3 F3 major third 7 beats per second. F3 D4 major 6th. Beating 8 beats per second (a little faster than the tuned 3rd) check D by checking A3 D4 4th. 1bps. Happy.. then carry on . D4 A#3 3rd 9 bps.. check by listen F3 A#3 4th . 1bps (I find a fraction slower than A3 D4).. . In short, I am listening to 3rds & 6ths and checking by 4ths. Somehow the 5ths just line up. If you want more info on this sequence, ask. My first training temperament sequence (from C4) was completely different from the 1st example, and I couldn't work it out. The Yamaha system was more suited to me. I have been using the 2nd example only for about 2 years, and I find it good on regular tunings. Now this may be completely different than what you were taught or may believe, but it works for me. and others.(we are all performing close enough to the same..just different). The Japanese are tough on tuning.just ask any technician who has been to the Yamaha Academy..and the Kawai technicians were very firm..... I found the Germans to be strict on temperament, and then allowed a little leeway from there. providing it worked..and lots of discussion. .In the end, I have found all nationalities then "go for a beer" Good idea is to find that RPT to give constructive criticism. Also look everywhere for ways to learn. Steven, this is my take on your post and your questions. You may accept this or trash it. My comments may disagree with others, but that proves we all have a different perspective on the subject.. I think that is good. AND btw David Renaud's post is very good. I wish I didn't have to tune A0, A#0 B0 and C8.....aarrgh!! bad memories. Regards Brian Wilson _____ From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of Steven Hopp Sent: Saturday, 21 February 2009 8:23 AM To: pianotech at ptg.org Subject: [pianotech] Tuning test Scoring Hello, Can anyone help me interpret these numbers and how I would score on the pitch setting and temperament section of the RPT tuning exam? I am using PRCT set for RPT exam. The ETD is calculating the offset and I am using the "listening ear" to arrive at these numbers. A440 - read 440.16 set in 1 1/2 minutes Temperament: Set in 18 minutes F3 +.59 F# -.91 G -.18 G# -1.12 A -.56 A# -.62 B -1.72 C4 +.58 C# -1.58 D -.74 D# -.58 E4 -1.76 F4 +1.0 Is this a passing score? Can anyone suggest where my weakness is? I tune my temperament as follows: Set A440 - tune A3 then set contiguous thirds F3 - C#4 - F4 - A4. Then from C#4 follow the down a P5 up a M3 up a M3. After my first reading my A3 and A4 were good so following the numbers above I corrected my errors and came up with the following numbers: F3 +.62 F# -.58 G +.21 G# -.63 A -.50 A# -.17 B -1.69 C4 -.41 C# -.89 D -.96 D# -.34 E -1.31 F -.80 Question: Is there allowance on the test to go back and adjust your temperament. Is this recommended? If not and I were to use my first temperament (assuming it is a pass) are the other numbers adjusted for the errors in the treble, high treble, and bass portions of the tuning exam? Thanks for all considerations. Any suggestions for other temperament sequences to try? Appreciatively, Steven PianoWorks Studio Midland TX. 432-770-7473 _____ Windows LiveT: Keep your life in sync. 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