Nick Thank you kindly for the words of affirmation You know for me, my entire career has been tone focused. It has been the driving force that has propelled me into the shop. This force I believe drive each one of us if we have any passion for creating our own tone, so to speak. Long ago I discovered that I was trying to find a piano tone that my ear was intuitively trying to hear. After much study,experimentation,voicing classes given & received I finally made up my own mind about the tone I wanted & best as to how to achieve it. For me,on my own piano yesterday, I found it again in bright new way. I like Dave P's comment about hammers being one of the most important & immediate remedial steps we can take to improve tone for our clients. Sorry Dave something like that....and there are many fine choices. Many choices that will work better for achieving ones ones own self directed tonal desire. Overtime I think it's become more straight forward for many of us in that we need a tonal medium that supplies a great deal of versatility of application & one that hits our target tone with the least amount of drama, greatest voicing stability/ongoing maintenance. Ya with me? For me, that is primarily the Ronsen hammer, as Ray has four different types of felt to choose from & they are pressed in a an old school traditional way which gives me the necessarys I listed above. However there are situati ons which require different styles of hammer felts & densities and learning which hammer choice is the right one is based on a variety of variables.ie. soundboard stiffness being one,acoustics, personal choice/preference. David Love is a proponent of hammer sampling & by now, many have heard this. It's a fantastic idea that works. For example I look at Ronsen & Renner hammers as complimentary in that a variety of chosen outcomes can be had thru this vast array of felt types & density types. These various hammers address different string tensions/scales, Soundboard stiffness issues as well as acoustic application, which, can be addressed most easily by simply choosing a hammer that is closest to the tonal goal the piano is telling you it can achieve. There other criteria to be sure. As to a consensus building? Yes I do. The hammer desnity pendulum is defintely swinging back to medium density. Why? Several things. Because many of us are long term professionals with a lot of experience & closely held personal opinions & we look for what works. In my opinion there is room at the table for any one making a product that works. There are many product choices available and I think we are all way past smoke and mirrors & hammers made like rocks... Simply insufferable.. Also hammers have gotten better & manufactures have heard the cry of the children in the vocing wilderness and responded & they too are getting better at there craft & we have Jack Brand felt=2 0wizard at Wurzen who is making felt in the old Weickert tradition. What a truly fantastic resource for every one of us. That being said let us not fall into he trap of thinking that all hammers/felt can be one perfect consistency no matter who the maker. It's organic material. It's felt,it's wood.Two items that vary greatly with moisture & heat. Wool, which can vary in density & thickness in production due to many factors... SO the choice for hammer makers is choose a density & a philosophy which hits their target product/ clientele & stick with in that range all the while juggling the variables. It ain't easy folks. If we analyze any given hammer maker & use enough sets of same we will find hammer sets that were stellar under our hands & other that were more work than the last set. Boys & girls ...I've learned one thing ..this is the life we live in. That's why we sharpen our voicing chops all the time, to mitigate the variables. I have such respect for you all. Nick I like the idea. Let it rip. Hey...If it were't for you and all these articles & I'd still be shimming all those split up boards!!. Thanks Dale Hi Dale, Pursuant to my phone calls to you and these recent posts, the Weickert felts appear to be an excellent new choice; and I look forward to using them ASAP. I have been wondering, however, where are those Renner Blue advocates out there, of which=2 0there must be many. I know of several Renner-only proponents (and first-rate technicians to boot), but I do not think they subscribe to this list. I don’t wish to start a mine-is-better-than-yours debate; but it seems that a professional discussion of the relative experiences and anecdotal input on these matters along with specific voicing techniques would be worthwhile. Is a consensus of thought developing out there? Many experienced techs are loathe to use S&S hammers, either in the past or present, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is they feel they cannot get the bite they are looking for. They opt for Renner or other or even Hamburg Steinway as they prefer to work the hammer down rather than up. Other fine techs take the opposite view by only using S&S as they feel they can’t get the warmth or stability they are looking for. You and others have explained quite well the merits of the new Weickerts and I am very appreciative of that. I don’t know if this post will catch on, and I doubt that any of us out here would be interested in a free for all; that is why my idea is to consider the opinions of experienced techs when it comes time to choose hammers for performance venue instruments such as Bs and Ds. We all know that such pianos need to bite as well as carry, and that most performers are going to voice frustration if this isn’t the case. Having said this, I think it reasonable to assume the standard axioms such as: It all depends on the needs of the performer; Let the piano tell you what it needs; We don’t all have the same sense of tone; you_fill_in_the_blanks. I would hope for professional replies, though I am aware that in the world of Lists and Groups many believe that a no-holds-barred approach is the most democratic, informative and should be considered the norm. At any rate, I am interested in such an airing, and I believe that such discussions have gone on in the past. Should this idea become a thread, the Subject line may need revising. Thanks again to you and Ray for all the R&D work and its value to the trade. Respectfully, Nick Gravagne, RPT Piano Technicians Guild Member Society Manufacturing Engineers Voice Mail 928-476-4143 From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of erwinspiano at aol.com Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 10:47 PM To: pianotech at ptg.org; oorebeek at planet.nl Subject: [pianotech] Weickert special felt update Hi Andre and all Ray & I are still learning & refining the Ronsen process with this felt. Ray & I have received the latest iterations of this felt & will have product & piano at the convention in Burbank Any way the good news is I sent out a 1971 Steinway D rebuild to Sunnyvale Ca. on Sat with a set of Weickert special concert density (concert20density...my term) hammers that is tonally outside of the box. It was not a new board, but, It was fantastic. It is very much like the first test set I installed on the Kawai kg-3 last summer & was curious about the density of those first hammer sets/sheets. It works very well with Rays pressing method. On the Sunnyvale D... the initial sound was slightly dark in the bass & low tenor but absolutely huge. In My Opinion, For New York Ds to sound like N.Y. Ds' they require a firm crown so I put about 4 to 6 drops of very weak key top solution on the crown of the bass hammers & one drop on each string cut from not 21 to note 35. That's it. Nothing but the initial filing on notes 35 thru 88. Break in solution if you will. It was so easy I felt guilty Yes, the hammers would have played in, but the time it takes to do this is not always available for D's that are going right into in concert situations. However, this is absolutely a great choice of felt & an extremely versatile hammer for this application. This Steinway D had more color than a box of color crayons. Pure tonal power,Lush,gorgeous,clear,sustain,projection, definition. I'm telling you, Wurzen is on the right track. This piano ( the D) was allegedly in the Custody of Van Cliburn at one time. Probably one of many. You Know? The client is a virtuoso & can really play. She was thrilled. Truly a fant astic sound.The voicing protocol was so simple it should be a secret. Never laid a needle in it except to test density. The really fussy work in my practice is prepping the set for an extremely even hammer weight curve and a beautifully shaped hammer. This is where the time is spent when doing custom action balancing & concert level voicing but the voicing time in this case was very little. Truly amazing! This felt is so resilient & bounces off the string so willingly that the voicing stability & longevity should be fantastic & simple to maintain. The felt is very promising...understament! Dale Erwin mean? Find out now! Carnations mean admiration, Tulips mean love - what do Roses mean? Find out now! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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