In a message dated 8/25/2009 6:45:08 P.M. Central Daylight Time, wimblees at aol.com writes: I would like to chime in with my view on this. I agree with Terry's (and Paul's) assessments, but here are a couple of additional thoughts on the matter which might clear up some misconceptions. First is the definition of the term "one pass". To me this means going from A0 to C88 one time, whether it's starting from A44 with a fork and setting an aural temperament Certainly you mean A440 or A49, but certainly not A44. , or tuning all the notes with an ETD, regardless of where you start. Even when tuning a piano that's already at pitch, the piano should get at least 2 passes, and then some. In other words, it's not enough to just tune the piano once, and let it go at that. A second pass is needed just to assure that all the notes are where they are supposed to be. And then a third or forth pass might be needed to tweak a few more notes. Second is the stability of a piano after a "pitch raise". Before we can say that a piano will not be stable after a pitch raise, we need to recognize that most pianos are not stable, especially in certain parts of the country. Having lived in the Midwest, I know that it's not uncommon to have the heat on at night and the AC running at full blast that same afternoon, and where summer temperatures can be over 100, with humidity to match, and to have sub-zero temperatures in the winter. In other words, for a piano to go sour after a pitch raise is not necessarily caused by the pitch raise. It is necessarily caused by the pitch raise. The physics of the piano make it incontrovertible. Other factors exacerbate it. That piano was destined to go out of tune, no matter what kind of tuning was done. The pitch raises most of us are familiar with are pianos that haven't been tuned for many years, often longer than customers even admit. To argue that a piano in a concert setting will not stay in tune after a pitch raise is almost a redundant statement, primarily because pianos in concert setting don't go untuned for more than a month at most. When Bill asked the question, he was most likely referring to pianos that are 20 or more cents flat, not because of a sudden change in temperature, but because of years of neglect. You are welcome to assign whatever numbers you wish, Wim. Now you're in the gray area that Terry referred to, and into which I won't go with hard numbers. Which brings me to my philosophy about pitch raise and fine tuning. Regardless of how flat a piano is, on the first pass the piano is tuned 25% higher than it was low. It may be on average 25%, but that would leave your bass high and your treble flat.. But I would offer a balance of 20% in the tenor, 25-30% in the treble, and 10-15% in the bass. This is an easy calculation and it is done by feel aurally, not to hard numerical boundaries. There is a particular pattern of tuning pins which I use based on some old Defebaugh videos, and it seems to even out the stress on the bridges, which is measurable. It is also a process which takes about 1/2 hour. This brings the piano back to "even keel". In this case, that first pass is as described above. This is immediately followed by a "regular" tuning, which requires two, three or even four passes, all in one sitting. I have found that with this tuning the piano will be "stable", as described above. The number of the following tuning "pass(es)" need to be calculated to the context of the job---concert, or Johnny's home piano, as I suggested before. I can say with all honesty that this happens, because unlike the weather conditions in the Midwest, we have a very stable climate in Hawaii. Day time temperatures are between 80 and 90 degrees, year around. Night time temperatures are between 65 and 75, year around. The humidity is always between 65% and 80%. Under these conditions I have done a 75 cent pitch raise and tuning, and came back a year later with that piano at pitch, and no more out of tune than a piano that was tuned at pitch the year before. In conclusion, when a piano has been through a pitch raise and a tuning in one sitting, yes it will go out of tune, but not because it just went through a pitch raise. Pitch alteration, up or down, is a physically destabilizing process for the piano since it adds or subtracts thousands of pounds of tension to the whole structure. Also, the piano was actually going "out of tune" during the pitch raise because of the pitch alteration in successive steps in one direction or the other. It will ALSO (added by PRJ) go out of tune because that piano is in an unstable environment, and because of design, will probably never be "stable". Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT Piano Tuner/Technician Mililani, Oahu, HI 808-349-2943 Author of: The Business of Piano Tuning available from Potter Press www.pianotuning.com **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech.php/attachments/20090825/e2e5e74e/attachment-0001.htm>
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