I tune weekly for a jazz venue where string breakage used to be a regular occurrence until I leveled the strings and fit the hammers to the strings. Also shaping the hammers to keep the strike point from getting to wide seems to help. John Yeradi On Oct 1, 2008, at 6:28 PM, pianotech-request at ptg.org wrote: > Send Pianotech mailing list submissions to > pianotech at ptg.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pianotech-request at ptg.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pianotech-owner at ptg.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Pianotech digest..." > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Pianist breaking many strings (wimblees at aol.com) > 2. Re: Pianist breaking many strings (Tom Sivak) > 3. Re: Pianist breaking many strings (pcpoulson at sbcglobal.net) > 4. RE: Pianist breaking many strings (St?phane Collin) > 5. Re: Pianist breaking many strings (reggaepass at aol.com) > 6. SAMICK - no pay? or slow pay? (Diane Hofstetter) > 7. RE: Pianist breaking many strings (Porritt, David) > 8. Geometry [was Re: Inertia...etc] (John Delacour) > 9. Pianist breaking many strings (Diane Hofstetter) > 10. RE: Geometry [was Re: Inertia...etc] (Garret Traylor) > 11. Re: What's all this I hear about Inertia ? (Fenton Murray) > 12. Re: What's all this I hear about Inertia ? (Fenton Murray) > > > > From: wimblees at aol.com > Date: October 1, 2008 1:10:40 PM CDT > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Subject: Re: Pianist breaking many strings > Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> > > > Short answer. NO. He wants to play hard. Let him pay for his way of > playing. > > Willem (Wim) Blees, RPT > Piano Tuner/Technician > Mililani, Oahu, HI > 808-349-2943 > Author of: > The Business of Piano Tuning > available from Potter Press > www.pianotuning.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Music Man <musicman831 at hotmail.com> > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Sent: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 7:49 am > Subject: Pianist breaking many strings > > Hi all. I have a client who is a professional pianist. He apparently > plays quite > forcefully. He seems to break one or two treble strings per month on > average, > usually in the upper three octaves. He has a Boston grand, model GP > 193. He says > he has always had this problem, no matter what piano he plays. He is > wondering > if there is a specific brand of piano that would lessen this > problem. Any > suggestions? > Bruce Trummel > _________________________________________________________________ > Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 > Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages! > > > > > > > > From: Tom Sivak <tvaktvak at sbcglobal.net> > Date: October 1, 2008 1:15:14 PM CDT > To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> > Subject: Re: Pianist breaking many strings > Reply-To: tvaktvak at sbcglobal.net, Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> > > > How about a Gulbransen spinet? They sound so bad that he will not > want to play it very much, thereby limiting the number of strings > that break. > > Seriously, I might try tuning the piano to a lower pitch level. I > used to tune for a small dinner theater where I would always find at > least one string broken each month when I came to tune. I started > tuning the piano to A435 and this reduced the number of broken > strings significantly. > > Less tension equaled fewer strings breaking. > > Tom Sivak > Chicago > > > --- On Wed, 10/1/08, Music Man <musicman831 at hotmail.com> wrote: > >> From: Music Man <musicman831 at hotmail.com> >> Subject: Pianist breaking many strings >> To: pianotech at ptg.org >> Date: Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 5:49 PM >> Hi all. I have a client who is a professional pianist. He >> apparently plays quite forcefully. He seems to break one or >> two treble strings per month on average, usually in the >> upper three octaves. He has a Boston grand, model GP 193. He >> says he has always had this problem, no matter what piano he >> plays. He is wondering if there is a specific brand of piano >> that would lessen this problem. Any suggestions? >> Bruce Trummel >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows >> Live. >> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 > > > > > > > > > From: pcpoulson at sbcglobal.net > Date: October 1, 2008 1:09:40 PM CDT > To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> > Subject: Re: Pianist breaking many strings > Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> > > > Bruce: It would seem that since he has had this problem no matter > what piano he plays, the problem lies in his technique, not in the > piano. At a certain point extra force beyond that which is necessary > to produce a loud note, say triple forte, does nothing but create a > percussive sound and damage to the instrument. Perhaps he needs the > piano voiced very brightly in these areas, or needs to learn to > moderate his playing. > Patrick C. Poulson > Registered Piano Technician > Piano Technicians Guild > > > > > > > > > From: Stéphane Collin <collin.s at skynet.be> > Date: October 1, 2008 2:14:31 PM CDT > To: 'Pianotech List' <pianotech at ptg.org> > Subject: RE: Pianist breaking many strings > Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> > > > Hi Bruce. > > While I fail to understand why, I always experienced that the > breaking of > the string is due to a particular movement of the pianist. A > pianist can > play loud on two manners : the first (and this is the one which breaks > strings) is to stiffen finger, arm shoulder and all, and give this > concrete > assembly the maximum down velocity. Bing. The sound is always > harsh, and > sometimes you break a string. The other is to give the finger, > wrist, arm > and shoulder the maximum suppleness you can, and even with force, > the sound > will be round and mellow, while forceful. To my understanding, the > difference lies in the acceleration of the hammer and hammer shank, > which > has incidence on the bending of the shank due to inertia, and so, on > the > shock quality of the hammer against the string. > My take : tell the pianist that he could play loud while having a > nice sound > coming out of the piano, in achieving the needed suppleness in the > stroke. > Or tell him that playing loud is a remain of his lower level > crocodile brain > wanting to show and prove his superiority on all other males, in > order to > obtain all the females around. In which case, the piano has no > chance to > survive. > > Best regards. > > Stéphane Collin. > > > Hi all. I have a client who is a professional pianist. He apparently > plays > quite forcefully. He seems to break one or two treble strings per > month on > average, usually in the upper three octaves. He has a Boston grand, > model GP > 193. He says he has always had this problem, no matter what piano he > plays. > He is wondering if there is a specific brand of piano that would > lessen this > problem. Any suggestions? > Bruce Trummel > > > > > > > > > > > From: reggaepass at aol.com > Date: October 1, 2008 2:23:18 PM CDT > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Subject: Re: Pianist breaking many strings > Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> > > > You could try backing off let-off significantly and seeing if that > turns the tide... > > Alan Eder > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Music Man <musicman831 at hotmail.com> > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Sent: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 10:49 am > Subject: Pianist breaking many strings > > Hi all. I have a client who is a professional pianist. He apparently > plays quite > forcefully. He seems to break one or two treble strings per month on > average, > usually in the upper three octaves. He has a Boston grand, model GP > 193. He says > he has always had this problem, no matter what piano he plays. He is > wondering > if there is a specific brand of piano that would lessen this > problem. Any > suggestions? > Bruce Trummel > _________________________________________________________________ > Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. > http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 > Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages! > > > > > > > > From: Diane Hofstetter <dianepianotuner at msn.com> > Date: October 1, 2008 2:32:31 PM CDT > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Subject: SAMICK - no pay? or slow pay? > Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> > > > > John, > > I have been trying to reach technical support at Samick for two > weeks now--a Kohler and Campbell (SG 155) has action centers > throughout seizing up--in a very prestigeous location. > > They won't return my phone calls or emails. > > > Diane > > Diane Hofstetter > 3909 E. Fourth Plain Blvd. #70 > Vancouver, WA 98661 > 360-699-1626 > > dpno2nr at yahoo.com > > > > -----Original Message----- >> From: John Dorr >> Sent: Oct 1, 2008 6:26 AM >> To: pianotech at ptg.org >> Subject: SAMICK - no pay? or slow pay? >> >> >> Hi, >> >> I'm having a lot of trouble getting paid on a warranty repair from >> Jane Jones >> at Samick. She hasn't returned any of my NUMEROUS phone calls for a >> 4-month-old invoice. >> >> Anybody else have similar problems with her/them? Do you know how >> to get them >> to pay? I've also called the accounts payable clerk, Jo Ann Chin, >> to no >> avail. She says it's Jane's responsibility. >> >> Lesson learned here by me is have the customer pay, and let them get >> reimbursed under their warranty. Never again like this! >> >> Thanks, >> John Dorr, RPT >> > > > > > > > Diane Hofstetter > > > > > > > > > > From: "Porritt, David" <dporritt at mail.smu.edu> > Date: October 1, 2008 3:13:16 PM CDT > To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> > Subject: RE: Pianist breaking many strings > Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> > > > Stephane: > > While I agree with your premise, I don't think there's much chance > of success on this. When piano technicians try to teach piano > technique to professional players, they tend to resent it. They > think of themselves as the professionals and we are the repair people. > > In the 22 years I've been at my current place, we've had two chronic > string breakers - several strings a week. Other players have broken > the occasional string but these two were way ahead of the pack. The > thing they had in common was the fact that they both were angry > young men. Their playing sounded angry because they were. > > dp > > > David M. Porritt, RPT > dporritt at smu.edu > > -----Original Message----- > From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] > On Behalf Of Stéphane Collin > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 2:15 PM > To: 'Pianotech List' > Subject: RE: Pianist breaking many strings > > Hi Bruce. > > While I fail to understand why, I always experienced that the > breaking of > the string is due to a particular movement of the pianist. A > pianist can > play loud on two manners : the first (and this is the one which breaks > strings) is to stiffen finger, arm shoulder and all, and give this > concrete > assembly the maximum down velocity. Bing. The sound is always > harsh, and > sometimes you break a string. The other is to give the finger, > wrist, arm > and shoulder the maximum suppleness you can, and even with force, > the sound > will be round and mellow, while forceful. To my understanding, the > difference lies in the acceleration of the hammer and hammer shank, > which > has incidence on the bending of the shank due to inertia, and so, on > the > shock quality of the hammer against the string. > My take : tell the pianist that he could play loud while having a > nice sound > coming out of the piano, in achieving the needed suppleness in the > stroke. > Or tell him that playing loud is a remain of his lower level > crocodile brain > wanting to show and prove his superiority on all other males, in > order to > obtain all the females around. In which case, the piano has no > chance to > survive. > > Best regards. > > Stéphane Collin. > > > Hi all. I have a client who is a professional pianist. He apparently > plays > quite forcefully. He seems to break one or two treble strings per > month on > average, usually in the upper three octaves. He has a Boston grand, > model GP > 193. He says he has always had this problem, no matter what piano he > plays. > He is wondering if there is a specific brand of piano that would > lessen this > problem. Any suggestions? > Bruce Trummel > > > > > > > > > > > > From: John Delacour <JD at Pianomaker.co.uk> > Date: October 1, 2008 3:38:13 PM CDT > To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> > Subject: Geometry [was Re: Inertia...etc] > Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> > > > At 17:17 -0700 30/9/08, David Andersen wrote: > >> ...I'll read the article and probably still be in the dark if >> there's any more than 6th grade algebra involved. > > I'd guess it might be a good idea to look at the Law of Cosines in > preparation. > > JD > > > > > > > > > From: Diane Hofstetter <dianepianotuner at msn.com> > Date: October 1, 2008 3:36:32 PM CDT > To: pianotech at ptg.org > Subject: Pianist breaking many strings > Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> > > > > > Alan said: > > > You could try backing off let-off significantly and seeing if that > turns the tide... > > > > Alan Eder > > > That worked for me many years ago with one rock star on his Yamaha > CP-70---that and buying the tools and teaching his road manager how > to change them for him. > > > > Diane Hofstetter > > > > > > > > > > From: Garret Traylor <hpp at highpointpiano.com> > Date: October 1, 2008 5:58:25 PM CDT > To: 'Pianotech List' <pianotech at ptg.org> > Subject: RE: Geometry [was Re: Inertia...etc] > Reply-To: hpp at highpointpiano.com, Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> > > > Makes my head spin. How do you say Euclidean? Math rules!?!! > Kindest Regards, > Garret > --- > > From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] > On Behalf Of John Delacour > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 4:38 PM > To: Pianotech List > Subject: Geometry [was Re: Inertia...etc] > > At 17:17 -0700 30/9/08, David Andersen wrote: > > ...I'll read the article and probably still be in the dark if > there's any more than 6th grade algebra involved. > > I'd guess it might be a good idea to look at the Law of Cosines in > preparation. > > JD > > > > > > > > > From: Fenton Murray <fmurray at cruzio.com> > Date: October 1, 2008 6:07:18 PM CDT > To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> > Subject: Re: What's all this I hear about Inertia ? > Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> > > > zzzzzzzzzzzzactly. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tom Servinsky > To: Pianotech List > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 5:10 AM > Subject: Re: What's all this I hear about Inertia ? > > And assist springs, even the adjustable,good kind, have never felt > as satisfying to me as an action with the ideal hammer weight, > action ratio, balance weight, and front weights, and regulated well: > by feel, by the "sweet spot," where the action feels its most > "buttery" and responsive. > > Amen, David. Bingo! My thoughts exactly. > Tom Servinsky > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Andersen > To: Pianotech List > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 7:01 PM > Subject: Re: What's all this I hear about Inertia ? > > > On Sep 30, 2008, at 8:46 AM, Fenton Murray wrote: > >> If you have heavy hammers, or a high action ratio, or even worse >> both, you will start to end up with too much lead in the key unless >> you are using assist springs. > And assist springs, even the adjustable,good kind, have never felt > as satisfying to me as an action with the ideal hammer weight, > action ratio, balance weight, and front weights, and regulated well: > by feel, by the "sweet spot," where the action feels its most > "buttery" and responsive. > On a well-made action that sweet spot falls within very narrow > parameters of distance and weight. Here are some of my ideal > parameters: > -action ratio: 5.5-5.7 > -balance weight: 37-39 > -blow distance: 46mm MINIMUM - 48mm > -key travel: 10.2-10.5mm >> These actions are not going to 'feel' right even though they may >> have great numbers. I don't know any way too measure this easily >> with weights at the key board, but I have become pretty good at >> feeling it through all the great mistakes I've made. > As Erwin says, zzzzactly. You get to a point where your hands, your > ears, your feeling sense, your eyes, your perceptions, are the vast > and fundamental basis of any diagnosis. It's a quick, intuitive > process, ratified and focused by testing with the Stanwood > protocols, and it works like magic. When the change is made the > client is ecstatic. > David A. >> Respectfully, >> Fenton > > > > > > > > > From: Fenton Murray <fmurray at cruzio.com> > Date: October 1, 2008 6:29:11 PM CDT > To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> > Subject: Re: What's all this I hear about Inertia ? > Reply-To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org> > > > On assist springs, I think they can make a bad action better by > allowing the removal of excess key lead, not the right way to fix > things. But, fooling around with these things I was able to 'feel' > the same action with different amounts of key lead, an action with > the same hammers, ratio, and BW, but different leading. An old 550 > Kawai had a nice action until I unhooked the assist springs and > added lead. > Fenton > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tom Servinsky > To: Pianotech List > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2008 5:10 AM > Subject: Re: What's all this I hear about Inertia ? > > And assist springs, even the adjustable,good kind, have never felt > as satisfying to me as an action with the ideal hammer weight, > action ratio, balance weight, and front weights, and regulated well: > by feel, by the "sweet spot," where the action feels its most > "buttery" and responsive. > > Amen, David. Bingo! My thoughts exactly. > Tom Servinsky > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Andersen > To: Pianotech List > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 7:01 PM > Subject: Re: What's all this I hear about Inertia ? > > > On Sep 30, 2008, at 8:46 AM, Fenton Murray wrote: > >> If you have heavy hammers, or a high action ratio, or even worse >> both, you will start to end up with too much lead in the key unless >> you are using assist springs. > And assist springs, even the adjustable,good kind, have never felt > as satisfying to me as an action with the ideal hammer weight, > action ratio, balance weight, and front weights, and regulated well: > by feel, by the "sweet spot," where the action feels its most > "buttery" and responsive. > On a well-made action that sweet spot falls within very narrow > parameters of distance and weight. Here are some of my ideal > parameters: > -action ratio: 5.5-5.7 > -balance weight: 37-39 > -blow distance: 46mm MINIMUM - 48mm > -key travel: 10.2-10.5mm >> These actions are not going to 'feel' right even though they may >> have great numbers. I don't know any way too measure this easily >> with weights at the key board, but I have become pretty good at >> feeling it through all the great mistakes I've made. > As Erwin says, zzzzactly. You get to a point where your hands, your > ears, your feeling sense, your eyes, your perceptions, are the vast > and fundamental basis of any diagnosis. It's a quick, intuitive > process, ratified and focused by testing with the Stanwood > protocols, and it works like magic. When the change is made the > client is ecstatic. > David A. >> Respectfully, >> Fenton > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pianotech list info https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/20081001/e3c8fd52/attachment-0001.html
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