[pianotech] High treble tuning musing - unison perfection

[Randy Chastain]

Tom,
You're not crazy. The "secret" of a pipe organ's warmth is the slight  
detuned unisons and octaves. I have been to a few seminars from  
Johannus organ and found this very interesting.


Randy Chastain
Golden Gate chapter



On Nov 30, 2008, at 8:35 AM, Tom Sivak wrote:

> I totally agree with your concept of slightly detuned unisons in the  
> high treble.  But I think what works in octave 7 works elsewhere, too.
>
> And...I'll get flamed for this...I believe this is the secret to  
> Virgil Smith's incredibly warm tunings.   And, the source of the  
> "Virgil Effect".
>
> But that's just what I think, so consider the source.
>
> In college, back when synthesizers were modular units consisting of  
> oscillators, envelope generators, filters, etc., that were "patched"  
> together with "patch" cords, it was common practice to link two  
> oscillators (sound sources) together and slightly detune them for a  
> "fatter" sound.  It gave the sound depth, and seemingly more  
> volume.  Three oscillators would exaggerate this effect.
>
> On really good pianos, to my perception, slightly wide unisons can  
> increase sustain throughout the range of the steel string  
> trichords.  It also helps mask the transition to wound strings,  
> which I attempt to tune as dead unisons.  It can also change the  
> attack portion of the sound, the instant the hammer hits the string,  
> making it less "thumpy".  Sometimes.
>
> Now you all know the depth of my insanity.  Call me crazy, and I'll  
> only agree with you.
>
> Tom Sivak
> Chicago
>
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 11/30/08, John Dorr <a440 at bresnan.net> wrote:
>
>> From: John Dorr <a440 at bresnan.net>
>> Subject: [pianotech] High treble tuning musing - unison perfection
>> To: pianotech at ptg.org
>> Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 3:57 PM
>> I've been chewing on a few ideas about tuning the high
>> treble tuning lately.
>> I'm not going to post all of them at once, suspecting
>> how the discussion is
>> likely to splinter into other tangents.  So I want to
>> introduce one idea at a
>> time for the list's feedback.
>>
>> First idea -- seems like when I NAIL a unison in the high
>> treble the note can
>> become lower in volume and sustain and less interesting in
>> content.  I was in
>> a class given by Don Manino once ("The Sound of Your
>> Tuning") where he
>> suggested and demonstrated SLIGHTLY detuning one of the
>> strings of the unison
>> up there to attempt to increase the sustain.  There were
>> two same-model pianos
>> in the room and he did a direct A-B comparison.  I was
>> sold.  Sustain was
>> noticeably increased with the detuned unison.  And it had a
>> little "shimmer"
>> to it - not really an objectionable beat, just a
>> "shimmer", maybe a slow
>> vibrato or slow-rolling beat, though the length of the
>> sustain wasn't long
>> enough to make the slow-rolling
>> "shimmer"/vibrato/beat at all unmusical.
>>
>> Perfect unisons of course assume strings that are not
>> self-beating.  As we
>> know, some pianos are not able to acheive that in some or
>> many high treble
>> strings, and thus create their own imperfections, often
>> ANNOYING
>> imperfections.  In these cases, the PURE unisons also make
>> their impure
>> neighbors stand out in comparison, so DEtuning the pure
>> ones may make for a
>> little more consistency in the piano's sound.
>>
>> Another little interesting phrase that was related to me
>> second-hand was from
>> an older, presumably very experienced tech who was fond of
>> saying, "Don't tune
>> the life out of the unison!"  I would assume the
>> phenomena I've described
>> above would be what he's referring to here, too.
>>
>> Your thoughts?
>>
>> BTW, I don't remember really whether Don recommended
>> detuning the one string
>> to the flat or to the sharp side.  I SEEM to remember flat,
>> but I'm unsure.
>