Steinway repetition problem

[David Skolnik]

William -
Paul's response echos my observation, some years 
ago when I was faced with the same problem.  The 
cause I believe, was related to the 
insufficient  thickness of the hammer butt felt 
(little red square), given the angles created by 
the action's design.  Here's where a picture 
would do so much better, but - if you look at the 
assembly at rest, the thinner butt felt allows 
the jack to fall forward (or back) towards the 
string, past the apex of the curve of the butt 
cushion (leather).  That means that when you do 
as Paul describes, removing all lost motion, you 
are elevating the height of the top of the jack 
slightly above the low point of the cushion, 
creating excessive friction as the jack tries to 
return.  You could try replacing a sample butt 
felt to see. This would reposition the rest 
position of the jack to correspond more closely 
with that apex, however, leaving some slight lost 
motion and making sure the keys return of their 
own weight would be much faster.

David Skolnik
Hastings on Hudson, NY



At 01:24 AM 3/25/2008, you wrote:
>Just a thought, William, based on what you said. 
>The capstans displayed "free play", what we call 
>lost motion, which later you say you corrected. 
>Lost motion seems to be one of the least 
>understood upright regulations. You have to have 
>zero in order to accomplish some other 
>regulations, then you have to have some to 
>accomplish some others. In the end, you have to 
>have some lost motion (maybe in the range of 
>1/32", or a wink of the whippen or backcheck) in 
>order for the hammer to return under the hammer 
>butt. Have you got the capstans cranked up too high? Just a thought.
>
>Paul
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul McCloud <pmc033 at earthlink.net>
>To: Pianotech List <pianotech at ptg.org>
>Sent: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:02 am
>Subject: RE: Steinway repetition problem
>
>Hi, William:
>     I'm going to second Mother about the wippen 
> heels.  I'd go for replacement.  Also, check to 
> see if the damper lever lift felt (end of 
> damper lever) and see if there are divots.  The 
> felt on these is very soft and not 
> woven.  Sometimes the felt has "melted" 
> something onto the spoons which causes them to 
> become rough.  Then they "carve" holes in the damper lift felt.
>     You could also strengthen the hammer return 
> springs.  Take out some of the shims from the 
> spring rail, or replace the springs with 
> stronger ones.  All the springs are suspect.  A 
> stronger jack spring will help too.
>     Easiest is to rebalance the keys.  I hate 
> jiffy leads, but in this case, you might need some.
>     Good luck.
>     Paul McCloud
>     San Diego
>
>Paul McCloud
>Service Technician for PianoSD.com
><http://www.pianoservsd.com>www.pianoservsd.com
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>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:pianoboutique at comcast.net>Piano Boutique
>To: <mailto:pianotech at ptg.org>pianotech at ptg.org
>Sent: 03/24/2008 1:20:00 PM
>Subject: Steinway repetition problem
>
>Greetings list,
>
>Like so many that have written into this list, I 
>am being backed into a corner and could 
>appreciate any words of wisdom that might be 
>offered.   I have a customer with a Steinway 42 
>inch vertical , serial, 331374 that looks like 
>it came out of the 60’s.   The piano has what 
>I think to be a Pratt Read action and the 
>problem is with the repetition.   This is one of 
>those pianos that have very little mass weight 
>in the keys behind the balance rail.   When I 
>started with it, there was a lot of free play in 
>the capstans and of coarse, I thought I would 
>improve it by adjusting them correctly.   Now 
>the keys are stalling and I would like to solve the problem.
>
>I did take the action out and: shape hammers, 
>clean, lube, tighten screws.   I replaced the 
>action and adjusted: level, dip, let off, back 
>checks and like I said; capstans.   I have had 
>this problem with other Steinways like this one, 
>but am getting tired of it and would like this one to work.
>
>I know I can add weights to the backs of the 
>keys, but that would make the touch heavier.   I 
>could take out weights from in front of the 
>balance point, but would like some suggestions 
>on how to remove them carefully, so if it 
>doesn’t work and decide to replace them I can.
>
>The customer has been patient and given me my 
>space to create the magic we do, but if it 
>doesn’t play right, then no one is happy.   Thanks for any help in advance.
>
>William
>
>
>
>PIANO BOUTIQUE
>William Benjamin
>The tuner alone,
>Preserves the tone.
>
>
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