for those on the fence about hearing protection..

[Michael Magness]

On Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Ron Nossaman <rnossaman at cox.net> wrote:

>
> > If a string is binding on a v-bar. I don't want the pianist to
> > be the one to balance out the tension, because I would not expect any
> > repeat business from that customer.
>
> The point I've tried to make for many years, still
> unsuccessfully, is that the problem isn't necessarily at the V
> bar, as is almost universally assumed. When we get instant
> aural (or visual) verification of change with any pin
> movement, then test blows are redundant if we have any idea
> what we're doing with the tuning hammer - if it's coming from
> the V bar. Tune a string in the capo section, using light
> blows. Get it where you want it, and where it stays there
> through a few more light blows. Then whack it. Depending on
> the severity and direction of humidity swings the piano had
> been through since you last tuned it, and how far you moved
> the string to tune it this time, it will either not change
> perceptibly, or drop anywhere from just detectable, to 4+
> beats. Unless we're hopelessly incompetent with a tuning
> hammer, that pitch drop didn't come from the V bar. It came
> through the bridge. Now, tune the string again, using the same
> soft blows as the first time. Get it where you want it, and
> whack it again. What happens? It stays put, if you know how to
> run the hammer. If we couldn't stabilize the string with soft
> blows the first time, why could we the second? Try it on the
> next string (next note). You'll likely get a similar effect.
> Did you forget how to run the hammer since the second pass on
> that last string. No, of course not. You just didn't hit it
> hard enough, at least once, to find out if it would render
> through the bridge before you quit tuning it. On the third
> string (next note), don't touch the pin at all. Note where the
> pitch is, and whack it. If the other two strings dropped in
> pitch, this one likely will too, and you hadn't laid hammer to
> it yet, so you can't blame hammer technique.
>
> Continual pounding will cause a string to creep sharp when we
> quit and come back to check in a minute or so. This, I think,
> comes from the V bar because we weren't getting an accurate
> representation of what we had when we left it. So it's
> possible to pound too hard as well as not hard enough.
>
> It's a combination of things. The people who say you can tune
> softly with stability with just good hammer technique are
> either tuning pianos who's MC hasn't changed at all since they
> last tuned it, and they're making one cent revisions, or they
> aren't aware of how lousy their tunings sound the week after
> they did them. Aside from the unusually inept "tooner",
> virtually all of the tuners I've followed from one to three
> weeks after their efforts has been a "don't have to hit 'em to
> get 'em stable" practitioner. If you're tuning in real world
> climate conditions, you *do* have to    hit 'em enough, at
> least once, to find out what slack the back scale has to give
> you. Then you adjust your approach to what the piano tells you
> is necessary.
>
>
> > I recently tuned a church grand in which, before tuning, I could mute
> > off a string in the octave 7 region, and knock it 3 to 8 cents flat with
> > just one moderate test blow (not pounding, but about as hard as I might
> > actually strike a key when playing my favorite Liszt Etude). The
> > previous tuner might suggest I play too hard, but I would say he did not
> > use firm enough test blows, and got lucky that nobody played it hard
> > enough to cause a problem.
>
> I have pianos that do the same thing. Since I'm the previous
> tuner, I know it wasn't the last guy not hitting them hard
> enough. The pianos I find this in have typically gone through
> 40%+ humidity swings between tunings. These same pianos, tuned
> again in the same season a couple of months later (wedding
> funeral, etc), don't do this. Tuned again at their regularly
> scheduled time, they do. When I follow someone a week of
> stable weather after he tuned it and can do this, it's not
> humidity.
> Ron N
>

I believe we agree more than disagree on this issue Ron. I don't "pound" the
pianos into submission but rather equalize the tension over the entire
string, as I related in another post. I was taught and firmly believe that
as we create more tension from pin to V-bar there is a little less from
V-bar to the capo, less still over the speaking length and as you noted we
then come to the bridge, should the piano also have a second "bridge" for
the duplex scaling we are now at 5 friction points by my count, I count each
bridge pin as one. Most of them metal on metal with our only option at
moving the string past, thereby equalizing the tension, being vibration. I
suggest whether you choose to use several medium blows or one or two much
harder blows is and should be a matter of preference. I have a good friend
who in anticipation of a PTG meeting at which we were having an Ear, Nose &
Throat specialist from the Mayo Clinic speak to us, took a db meter with him
for a week at the college he works for. He uniformly found the reading to be
120db whether in a practice room or concert hall, studio piano or concert
grand. He uses hearing protection and a key pounder to save his
hands/wrists.
I have one particular grand, I did almost exclusively, now I am the only
tech that tunes it. In the past the music department at the college insisted
on using their tech, who was willing to discount his price to them, a
compentent enough guy who just doesn't "set" his tunings as well as another
tech from town and I do. We have both noticed having to work harder to tune
the piano to our satisfaction following one of his tunings. He does not seem
to be concerned with equalizing the tension as we are. I have often wondered
how he manages to get the backscale in tune on the duplex scaled pianos with
his technique. I had mentioned this to the gentleman who hires my services
on the occasions when he asked why it took longer than usual and he decided
that if the music department wants to use his hall and his piano, they would
have to use his tech as well. The piano belongs to the student activities
department. The grand in question is a Kawai GS-60 about 20 years old that
gets used perhaps 8 to 10 times a year. It has a full Dampp-Chaser system
with a standard cover and undercover. The tech I refered to used to work for
a "self-taught" self proclaimed Steinway rebuilder and has an attitude that
anything less than a Steinway isn't really worth his time.

Mike

-- 
The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that
will allow a solution.
- Bertrand Russell

Michael Magness
Magness Piano Service
608-786-4404
www.IFixPianos.com <http://www.ifixpianos.com/>
email mike at ifixpianos.com
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