too much mass

[Barbara Richmond]

Hi Kerry,

Hmm, good point.  Maybe I did something to the hammer springs, too. Or maybe 
it's about having <all> the springs at the right tension so timing of the 
parts' movement is correct.  It's been so long ago, I'm having a problem 
remembering what I did.  Mostly I recall setting a sample in the piano by 
pulling on the damper spring and then pulling the action out of the piano 
and working from "behind"--pushing on the levers after adjusting the springs 
so they felt like they had the same resistance.  Not very scientific, but 
reasonable results can be had if a person has a sensitive touch.

So much for my great advice!  :-}  Darn, I don't have an upright action 
model to goof around with.

Barbara Richmond, RPT
near Peoria, IL

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kerry" <kkean at neo.rr.com>
To: "'Pianotech List'" <pianotech at ptg.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2008 7:56 AM
Subject: RE: too much mass


> Barbara, this is very interesting and points out some problem spots that
> don't always get looked at. I am having trouble envisioning how heavy 
> damper
> springs cause poor repetition though - wouldn't they push the wippen back
> faster on release and help repetition? Did the problem occur when the
> dampers were lifted, indicating that the strong springs were an attempt to
> cover up other problems in the action? I have noticed too-strong springs
> before but I think they were in lower-quality instruments that had enough
> other problems that I never tried to sell the owner/dealer on correcting 
> it
> - maybe I'll try that in the future just to see what happens. Thanks for 
> the
> new line of thought.
>
> Kerry Kean
> Kent, Ohio
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Barbara Richmond [mailto:piano57 at comcast.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 10:41 PM
> To: Pianotech List
> Subject: Re: too much mass
>
> Howdy,
>
> I just wanted to make a general comment on what a HUGE difference (tonally
> and touch-wise) can be made when one or some of these things are 
> corrected.
>
> A Knabe console was transformed into a different piano (according to the
> owners) when I corrected the overly strong damper spring adjustment--the
> touch originally was way too heavy and the repetition poor with the keys
> getting stuck now and then.   I've corrected too-strong damper springs in 
> a
> number of pianos.  The clue is a heavy, springing-back at you feel--though
> the heaviness can also feel like the damper lift is too soon.  Personally,
> I've
> run into more pianos with damper spring issues than hammer spring
> issues--though you can be sure if there are bobbling hammers,
> everything gets looked  at.
>
> A few years ago I did a complete regulation on an eight year old Samick
> console that had had no dealer prep.  There were three main culprits--the
> balance rail holes needed reaming (too tall), the dampers springs were too
> strong <and> the damper timing was too early.  That piano certainly came
> alive with the touch corrected and a little voicing.
>
> A Yamaha P-22 was transformed with key work (taking care of tight
> bushings and balance holes)--not only was the touch nicer,
> but the piano's voicing opened up and there was more power.  I also spent
> some time regulating and voicing--but I'm convinced the keywork made the
> biggest difference on that one.
>
> For the first time this month, I found a new piano in which the damper 
> lift
> is too late.  The dealer pointed the piano out to me saying that she 
> thought
> it felt like an electronic keyboard...
>
> Barbara Richmond, RPT
> near Peoria, IL
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Jon Page" <jonpage at comcast.net>
> To: <pianotech at ptg.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 02, 2008 9:44 PM
> Subject: too much mass
>
>
>> Move the capstans forwards? Install balance rail shims behind the pins?
>> Either one will lower the ratio, you might even be able to remove some
>> front weight.
>>
>> Are the hammer, jack and damper springs overly tensioned?
>>
>> Balance rail hole too high, tight bushings...the usual suspects.
>> -- 
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jon Page
>>
>
>
>
>
>