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[Bernhard Stopper]

Ric,

I never stated that the finding of the P12 temperament was brilliant.
But as any temperament that was at one time first described by it´s 
inventor, i claimed to name the P12 temperament as "Stopper-temperament"
like as there exist "Young" or "Valotti" or  "Pythagorean" or the recent 
"Cordier-temperament" (P7) or any other kind of historic temperament.

If there exist such a publication (like mine from 1988), and if someone 
other cames up a decades of years later, even he did the finding his 
own, it´s the reinvention of the wheel, that´s that simple. And it´s 
simply unkind not to not to agree my authorship on the matter.

What makes the P12 important is that it is compatible with what the best 
aural tuners do and the recent finding of the symmetry of numbers and 
(or beats and frequencies with the already described canceling out-effect)

By the way the thinking was in the seventies not as far as today where 
the important breakthrough came from Serge Cordier who was the first who 
breaked through the pure octave in theory with his "Cordier 
temperament"(P7).

When i ask for money, than i ask for some protected method or software 
or use of brand, here again your are twisting the words in my mouth.
If anybody implements at their own (like Verituner some years ago and 
Tunelab with the "average" setting from 2005) i can and i do not ask for 
money,
unless the work is derived by use or copy of any of my patent pending 
methods or implementations.

regards

Bernhard

Richard Brekne schrieb:
> Hi David and all
>
> I'm truly sorry all this comes to the list one more time, and as much 
> for the fact that Bernard in spite of this kind of thing is no doubt a 
> dedicated tuner and a creative mind. It is indeed sad that he ruins 
> much of all with less then constructive attitudes.
>
> But for the record let me just say this.  At root of all this seems to 
> be the idea of using the 19th root of 3 to divide semitones from a 
> 12ths perspective rather then what tuners have traditionally done with 
> octaves and the 12th root of 2.  Additionally the fact that I employed 
> this into a ETD file using Tunelab some 6 years ago now.  Actually... 
> coming upon the idea of using 12ths and the 19th root of 3 is no major 
> piece of brilliant mind work.  It is an extremely simple jump to make 
> if anyone looks at the coincident partials used in relevant tests.  
> When one is living in a world of ETDs' it is equally simple minded to 
> try and employ this idea using one.  Anyone who knows my tuning file 
> knows how simple it is, and also knows that it is only a template 
> since Bob Scott left the ability to construct such files directly out 
> of all versions of tunelab since TL 97.  Jason Kanter has since come 
> up with a way of doing much the same using Tunelab versions after 
> however if anyone is interested.
>
> Bernard evidently has done some in depth tuning mathematics way beyond 
> what I did to justify this basic approach and has been advocating a 
> P-12ths type of tuning for many years.   I still do not know the 
> specifics of this and had absolutely no knowledge of it prior to his 
> first appearance on the list where he made similar claims both with 
> regard to authorship and the basic superiority of his tuning over all 
> others.
>
> Let me simply state one last time before I go on holiday.  My p-12ths 
> tuning was developed on my own with no knowledge of others work on the 
> subject... and indeed is a humble and simple piece of work compared to 
> what I have since come to understand Bernards work was/is.  I have 
> liked the P-12th idea ever since and have had a suspicion that many 
> fine tuners like yourself  David have strong tendencies to tune in 
> similar fashion using other tests.  But I would never ever presume to 
> talk about the superiority of one tuning style over another.  The 
> finest tuning in the world is always a result of the best execution of 
> a well thought out plan... and nothing more. It is essentially how 
> well you achieved what you set out to achieve.  And I would never 
> dream of accusing another person of plagiarism without a shred of any 
> real evidence. For that matter.. the idea of forcing people to pay for 
> using a particular tuning style because <<I thought of it first>> is 
> so foreign to me that it really belongs on some other planet.  If 
> anyone wants to tune P12ths with an ETD they can do so freely on their 
> own by direct referencing any of the presently available ETD's or by 
> use of the tuning curve template I've supplied over these many years 
> for Tunelab.
>
> Now I'm going on holiday. Dismayed once more that the fine aspects of 
> list participation are so easily overshadowed by the dark side of 
> life.  I actually do love this work of ours... and I delight in 
> researching things unknown to me and making whatever contributions I 
> can when ever I can.... freely and without thought of personal gain 
> either monetary or otherwise.  Aristotlean leisure if you will.
>
> Enjoy your summers and once again... sorry for this spectacle.
>
> Best regards
> Richard Brekne
>
>
>
>
>     WHOA! How can you possibly say that? I have heard many great
>     tunings,  
>     all over the world, using all kinds of methods to arrive at
>     beauty. I  
>     could never let the above statement pass without challenge.
>
>     My brother, that's going too far. Your tuning is beautiful, and I  
>     respect your passion and desire to aspire to tuning excellence---but  
>     to say that your temperament is superior to any  other can only  
>     diminish and tarnish your perception in our community; there is no  
>     "proof" as you speak of it, and your colleagues have and will take  
>     offense and umbrage
>     if you keep insisting there is.
>
>     Let it rest; create beauty with your tunings, and your tuning  
>     software, and let a hundred other flowers bloom.
>     Life is too short for these kinds of trumped-up arguments and sturm  
>     und drang.
>
>     With best hope and intention,
>     David Andersen
>
>     P.S. This is my last word on this, so please feel free to remove my  
>     name from the subject line if the thread continues.
>