Dave. With respect... and lots of it... I have to just respond to the part of your post directed clearly at me. The Mic Ric bit is accepted in the jovial spirit I am sure you meant it, just to get this reply off on a nice note as it were. You do make a charge... point shall we say about dallying close to a danger zone followed up by underlining the false beat example I give has nothing to do with tuning pins per se. I have to take issue this on at least a couple counts. #1. The neccessity or not of bringing in any particular example for the sake of illustrating a point is a matter for the individual writing a post to decide. IMHO readers should simply accept that a post is trying to convey something meaningful and leave it at that. #2 Failure to simple accept contributions on face value and start reading into them side issues that may even perhaps be their is the real danger zone. Why allow oneself to be provoked in the first place... even if that was what a poster was trying to do ... which you dont really know... #3 I dont believe I ever tried to convey that the cause of false beats had anything in practice to do with the whether tuning pins can damage/be damaged in the course of years of use. Rather, and I think I pretty clearly stated this... I drew an example of how opinions on a matter based on what can be only seen as casual observance get presented as fact... and indeed take root and in the end become myths accepted as fact. We scorn regularly at this kind of thing as it has happened in the distant /not to distant past... but we just as regularly look past our own eagerness to sew and give nourishment to new myths. Not meaning any disrespect to Ed Foote... but (and by way of another example) Just how does one ascertain the factual nature of the two main claims he made in his post ? I have myself turned out pins 3 1/2 turns for replacing strings for nigh on 35 years now. And my experience does not, I say again does NOT, support the claim that this in anyway whatsoever causes damage to the pin block or causes tuning pins to loose so much torque that they are anywhere near untunable. In fact... I find on older pianos the occurance of very low torque levels has no correlation to which notes have had strings replaced at all. But... the fact is.. that neither Ed or I have any kind of real data to begin with to support a claim of fact.... let alone putting that data into the perspective of an organized study. My point is... we can share thoughts all day long... and thats fine. But things here get presented as fact that clearly are not substantiated. I am aware that some seem to find it annoying that I keep raising this point... but for my part I consider it an important one. Especially when apparently so many here are honestly and genuinely concerned with ascertaining more piano-fakta and sifting away myth and supposition (for not to say superstition). Lastly... why really should any of this give cause or rise to "combat"... as you put it ? Whats wrong with just expressing one views in the spirit of polite discussion ? Why the need to beat (as in combat) the other guy/gal up ? Sorry if my allusion to the False Beats discussion took you off into some danger zone. It was just the best example of the point I was trying to make at hand at the time. Cheers RicB Dave Skolnik writes: The most difficult aspect of responding to your question(s) is to navigate through the "triggers" that would ultimately derail an otherwise intelligent discussion of a reasonable question(s). Not wanting to point any fingers, I'll just sort of lean in Mic Sprekne's (name misspelled to protect identity) direction. I thoroughly respect Ric Mic's formidable body of contributions, but, to prove to myself that he's human, I'll occasionally look for something to criticize. I think the last post in this thread dallied unnecessarily in the danger zone...false beats and round or flat earth controversy! While it may ultimately be related, there could be so much to talk about before succumbing to the urge for combat. DOWN! (there's always the midterm elections tomorrow ta quench yr thirst fr blood, matey!) I write "question(s)" because it IS two questions... tuning pin and pinblock. This has nothing to do with bridge, bridge pins or false beats, but you would want to be able to distinguish the behavior of the tuning pin, as distinct from the block, in the almost infinite permutations. I said almost. For the pins, consider the size, composition, finish, consistency, method of fabrication, more. The block...material selection, style (glue to wood ratio), drilling techniques, more. Not to mention tuning pin bushings.
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