I wasn't aware that there had been 2 centuries of arguing pros and cons. I'd be curious about statements from composers to that specific issue, if there are any. It seems if there were such statements that the question would have been answered as to what drove them. I do know that temperaments developed toward ET consistently until it was finally achieved. I don't know of any statements by any composers lamenting the loss of their beloved WT or wolf tones. I do recall an interesting discussion by a pianist customer of mine who has perfect pitch. She does, by the way, favor ET. The WT's simply sound out of tune to her. She commented that she often wondered what people without perfect pitch heard because the shift in keys within a piece was so obvious to her and the character of the piece changed so much with those shifts due to her innate awareness and response to the characteristics of individual keys. The farther from the tonic the piece moved, the greater the tension due to the remoteness of the new key and its own particular characteristics, not because of a change in the effective tuning style. Though, she commented, people with a highly trained sense of relative pitch would be able to follow the shifts in key, she wondered if the reaction to those shifts wasn't more intellectual than visceral, as it was with her. The varying "color" of the keys occurred naturally as a function of her innate abilities are perceptions. Though I mentioned this before, it seems like the selection of keys in pieces had much more to do primarily with that and may have been influenced or limited by some other factors particular to the piano. Interestingly, the resurgence in WT seems like it does offer those without perfect pitch a sort of quasi experience with it. The different nature of the keys driven by the temperament allows the person without perfect pitch to experience something that a person with perfect pitch might without artificial manipulation. Key choices of various composers were probably driven by a variety of factors. In Beethoven's Opus 2#3 in C, the choice of keys may have been driven by the pianistic requirements of the right hand especially in the opening of the final movement which would be quite difficult in a key with any sharps and flats. The generally agitated character of the opening movement doesn't argue for a choice of the key of C if the characterizations ascribed to that key hold true as a motivating factor. Chopin's selection of keys was certainly driven by pianistic considerations (btw I don't think he possessed perfect pitch, but I might be wrong). He writes that he always started his students out with scales in the key of B because it fell most naturally under the hand. The predominance of pieces in 4 and 5 flats in his work was certainly a function of what he considered important--a natural and relaxed hand. The key of C, he wrote, was the most difficult and unnatural. Not surprising that very few (if any) pieces are written in that key. While I think the exploration of WT has it's own interest in terms of what the composers of that day may have been hearing when they actually played their works on the piano or related instrument, I think it is far from conclusive that those who often conceived of and composed things away from the instrument, with a keen sense of absolute pitch and the unique characteristics of each key apart from the piano, with orchestration ever in their minds would have been driven by tuning style that was evolving even during their own lifetimes. David Love davidlovepianos@comcast.net -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Ric Brekne Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 8:08 AM To: pianotech Subject: (careful, it is about temperaments) Please show me the "evidence". David Love davidlovepianos@comcast.net <mailto:davidlovepianos@comcast.net> Seems to me you've had several items tossed out at you already. What evidence there is, is in the form of such things as were discussed and written at the time and handed down to us. And of that it seems quite clear that nearly all that was written fell into two catagories. On the one had there were those who espoused the colour of keys when tuned to non ET. There is a myriad of this stuff really. On the other hand, there were those who espoused the uniformnimnity of ET apparently for two reasons... the challenge of accomplishing it, and its tonal portability. The now at least 2 centuries of arguing the pros and cons of ET seem to always fall into those two basic camps. How could there ever be an argument in the first place unless there were proponents for non ET. And what possible reason could they have for being against ET unless it was because of the tonalities available by avoiding it ? And that being so... what should stimulate us to beleive that composers didnt give a hoot and were totally unaffected by both the tonalites and the disscussions at hand ? I'll leave all the music theory analysis to those of you who wish to delve into that world for evidences. For me it seems pretty clear cut. ET was /is a matter of convenience and one of those mountains to climb that we humans so love to ascend. HT's were full of key colours that not only could be exploited... but humans being what they are.. were exploited. After all... we use what is at hand. Just my view... Cheers RicB _______________________________________________ Pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
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