This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment MessageHi Geoff, Your luck has apparently been worse than mine. ;-) Yes, when water = with any ionic content hits a board, you have gizillions of tiny "soft" = shorts, as you suggest, and that's usually enough to thoroughly confuse = any logic circuitry. However, if there aren't any static sensitive = circuits mixed in with high voltage circuits, the device will usually = only experience "brain drain" and won't get zapped. About the hard drive, I remember the bad ol' days of hard drives -- back = in the MFM and RLL days (Might Function Minimally and Run Life = Limited). I often received a desperate phone call from a fellow grad = student, wanting me to render aid after a hard drive crash. I would = always tell the person to shut down the hard drive RIGHT NOW and not to = run it again until I could get there. The drive would frequently be = making dragging and scraping noises. Even so, I could still recover a = large chunk of the data. The drive was only good for perhaps an hour or = so of runtime after making noise, and the failure was progressive. I = would always autopsy the hard drive afterwards and find tons of debris = in it. Modern hard drives don't crash quite so brilliantly as the old = ones, but I remember recently replacing a 30GB drive in a friends = laptop. There was not data loss, but the drive was definitely making = noise, hence my recommendation to back up the data NOW and to order in a = replacement drive. She used the drive for another couple of days while = the new drive was on order. It never went "down" but continued to make = dragging noises (perhaps from a munched head on an unused platter). The lesson from all of this is that a hard drive can indeed run with = dust, debris, etc. inside. In fact there is an internal filter that = catches debris as it is generated during deterioration of the internal = works. However, when debris is afoot, the drive's life expectancy is = VERY limited. I'm not saying that there should ever be any reason to = break the seal on a hard drive. But just the same, if it's necessary, = it can be done. Just not for long -- just long enough to pull off the = data. Having said this, my suggestion was merely to bleed distilled water in = and out of the hard drive through the filtered ventillation port to = rinse out the fluids from the inside. I know this sounds awful, but the = water can all be boiled off at room temperature in a complete vacuum. = There are lots of people with vacuum pumps, including automotive air = conditioning service companies and high school physics teachers. ;-) = Alternatively, take the top off of the platter housing, rinse, and dry. = Then run the thing open, long enough to recover all the data. Believe = it or not, I've run dying hard drives open before, just to see them = work. They could function that way. This would probably be the = approach I'd take if my HD took a dunk in the toilet. But then again, THESE THINGS SHOULD ONLY BE DONE BY QUALIFIED, = PROFESSIONAL DATA RECOVERY PERSONNEL!!! (My disclaimer.) Peace, Sarah ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Geoff Sykes=20 To: 'Pianotech'=20 Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 1:48 AM Subject: WAIT! NO! - RE: When your day goes in the toilet When you get an electronic device wet, for whatever reason, and it was = turned on at the time, you will be lucky if it lives at all. Almost all = liquids hold dissolved solids likes salts and minerals and a whole bunch = of other stuff that is usually conductive. A wet device usually dies = when power is applied to components that have contacts shorted out with = these dissolved conductive solids. What happens is the contacts short = out and delicate components go "paff", kablooie. If this were to happen = to your TV you would get sparks, smoke and possibly fire. On a cell = phone, a PDA or a laptop it's just quietly dead.=20 So, on most devices, without hard drives, that were not turned on at = the time of their dunking, the first thing you DON'T want to do is turn = it on. What you do want to do is quickly remove the battery, open up the = device, (carefully), and rinse it out in DISTILLED water. Make sure it = is ABSOLUTELY DRY, (give it a couple of days), before you replace the = battery and turn it on again.=20 Now - regarding hard drives. DON'T EVER BREAK THE SEAL! EVER! They're = sealed for a reason. Hard drives are assembled in a "clean" environment = and any teensy tiny invisible speck of microscopic dust that gets into = one will destroy the platter, and your data, guaranteed. The magnetic = pickups inside a hard disk drive don't actually touch the platter but = actually ride on an extremely thin wave of air that is created by the = spinning of the disk itself. Should anything bigger than a molecule or = so get trapped between the pickup head and the platter it is going to = act like sandpaper and score the platter making your data absolutely = irretrievable. Once again, DO NOT EVER BREAK THE SEAL ON A HARD DRIVE!=20 Instead, as a protective measure, back up your data frequently. And, = should you ever find yourself with a non-functional drive that contains = data that you absolutely can't live without, find a company that = specializes in data retrieval. They can retrieve data from almost = anything. The good ones can probably even retrieve data from a hard = drive that's been opened. But they're not cheap.=20 -- Geoff Sykes Assoc. LA Chapter -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] = On Behalf Of Sarah Fox Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 4:25 PM To: Pianotech Subject: Re: When your day goes in the toilet PS I even resurrected a laptop computer that had a glass of wine = spilled into it (the computer I'm using now). However, if anything = liquid gets into a hard drive (which fortunately it didn't), the hard = drive would need to be replaced.... unless..... to rescue your data, = at least... (1) Put the hard drive into a container of distilled water. (2) Slowly pull a partial vacuum on the hard drive to draw out the = air inside, and sloooowly release the vacuum. (The water will flow into = the hard drive through the filtered vent hole.) (3) Shake water around inside the hard drive. (4) Remove from the water and slooooowly pull a vacuum again, which = will cause the water to come back out. (5) Repeat a few times=20 (6) Vacuum out the water, and draw a hard, prolonged vacuum to = completely evacuate all remaining water. (7) Pray to the computer gods. (8) Reinstall and power up. (9) Pull your data off of the hard drive and load it onto a = replacement. Why? The internal debris would have been scattered from = the filter, so the hard drive's life expectancy might not be so good. (10) Send me an email to tell me if it worked. :-) Peace, Sarah ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Sarah Fox=20 To: Pianotech=20 Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 7:02 PM Subject: Re: When your day goes in the toilet Hi James, For your Nokia and anybody else's near-flush experience, take = heart that most electronic devices CAN be brought back to life if you do = it the right way: (1) Remove batteries. (2) Submerse in a container of = distilled water. (3) Open the case to expose the insides. (4) Flush = with a couple more fresh rinses of distilled water. (5) Blow out the = excess water and let dry (*thoroughly*). (6) Reassemble and power up. = (Why is distilled water different from tap water? It doesn't have any = salts in it and therefore doesn't conduct electricity.) I had done this = several times throughout the years and then ran into some guy who was an = electronics technician for the Navy. He had used the exact same method = on a daily basis (and with great success) on equipment that got dunked = in seawater. ;-) Peace, Sarah ----- Original Message -----=20 From: James Grebe=20 To: Pianotech=20 Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 7:34 AM Subject: Re: When your day goes in the toilet Maybe your pocket PC came back, but cell phones do not after = being dunked in the toilet. I had that experience and when the battery = gets wet if has a dye that shows it has been wet on the battery and it = is NOT covered under warranty and the cell phone was unfixable. I had = to go back to my old cell phone because the new one, though only 1 month = old it had to be replaced and they could not fix it. I did not have = replacement insurance. I used to have a Motorola pager and it went = through the washing machine but after 1 day of drying out it did come = back. Praise be to Motorola and not Nokia. Jim James Grebe Piano-Forte Tuning & Repair Creator of Handsome Hardwood Caster Cups, piano benches, writing = instruments (314) 608-4137 WWW.JamesGrebe.com 1526 Raspberry Lane Arnold, MO 63010 BECOME WHAT YOU BELIEVE! pianoman@accessus.net ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Piannaman@aol.com=20 To: pianotech@ptg.org=20 Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 11:32 PM Subject: When your day goes in the toilet From the files of "Embarassing but True." If you can't laugh = at yourself, who CAN you laugh at? So I finish tuning this lady's piano, and the diuretic effects = of the morning's coffee kick in. "M'am, may I use your facilities?" "Yes, no problem." She shows me to the door. =20 I'm wearing my shop apron. Don't know why, probably because = of the convenient pocket space it affords me to put things like my = pocket PC in(foreshadowing here...) Business done, apron back in place--without my IPAQ, which has = fallen into the (fortunately freshly flushed) toilet. Flushed for most = of the day were appointments, Tunelab, contacts, and map functions. =20 Things to be thankful for:=20 My wonderful wife, who offered me personalized GPS service via = my cell phone from her job at the university. I tune mostly by ear, anyway. (4 of the five jobs consisted = of lowering the pitch on new pianos, 2 by over 20 cents each). Since my day was so busy, I'd made out all of today's invoices = in advance, so at least I had everyone's address handy. SD cards, which saved EVERYTHING today. Water dries out. Computers can come back from a dunking.=20 It's been a long day. Time for a glass o' vino. Dave Stahl ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/fc/91/33/8a/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
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