Player piano vent block diagnosis

[gordon stelter]

My Laffargue definitely had an upside down Amphion
stack. And worked wonderfully when done, though one
swift kick was needed to seat the valves. After that,
you could push the pedals with your pinky and it would
play nicely.  Easy to add dynamiccs.
    What are upside-down valves doing on a 1927
Ampico, though ??? That strikes me as rather odd.
     Thump


--- "D.L. Bullock" <dlbullock@att.net> wrote:

> WHOA just a minute
> 
> The problem stack Greg describes is not made by
> Amphion, guy.  It is a
> Laffargue.  What he describes is either an unrebuilt
> set of valves or one
> that was rebuilt with sponge neoprene instead of the
> leather that it needed.
> 
> An Amphion upside down valve block is one of the
> best working systems there
> is.  It was also used in early Ampico reproducers
> and I am presently
> restoring one of those with those valves from 1927. 
> I have done more than
> 50 sets of those valves and I have NEVER had one
> that had problems seating.
> If you have had that problem, the player you had
> must need restoration by
> someone who knows how to do it.
> 
> D.L. Bullock    St. Louis
> www.thepianoworld.com <http://www.thepianoworld.com>
> 
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> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ron Nossaman [mailto:rnossaman@cox.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 1:01 AM
> To: Pianotech
> Subject: Re: Player piano vent block diagnosis
> 
> 
> 
> > I wanted to call this subject "Players suck" just
> to
> > get some attention, but refrained.  Technically
> > correct, but often mistaken for a disrespectful
> value
> > judgement.
> >
> > My problem:  customer's Laffarge upright player,
> built
> > 1919, player action nicely rebuilt 1970, still
> very
> > clean and tight, works great, EXCEPT...
> >
> > When starting a roll, there is the sound of a
> major
> > vacuum leak.  The spool turns slowly, but no keys
> > play.  You have to turn the electric vac up to
> full
> > power, something pops shut, then the piano plays
> > perfectly, even after slowing the vac back down to
> the
> > minimum.  The pump is tight, the motor is tight,
> the
> > action stack leaks only a little at the end
> gaskets.
> >
> > I think the action cutoff "gate box and vent
> block",
> > between the pump reservoir and action stack is
> > malfunctioning.  It appears externally to be
> exactly
> > like the photo in Reblitz's "Player Piano...",
> page
> > 106, Illus. 6-17, third printing, 1986.
> >
> > I didn't have time to take it apart, but was
> hoping an
> > expert would have an idea why this valve would be
> slow
> > to close, needing very high vacuum.  Any advice?
> > Quick fix?  Something else wrong?
> >
> > Greg Graham
> > Closet player piano aficionado in denial
> 
> 
> It's likely an Amphion action, which means the
> valves are mounted
> upside down. Even with a with a good rebuild and a
> minimal 0.030"
> valve gap (neither of which is likely), 80+ valves
> all leaking that
> little bit until enough vacuum can be generated to
> suck them all up
> to seat will drain the system down. There's no field
> repair for poor
> design, so I'd expect you won't fix it with
> adjustments to the stack
> cutoff.
> Ron N
> 
> 
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