soundboards

[Gevaert Pierre]

Hi André,

The new one of course!
I would sell it and buy several older quality pianos (you know, those
instruments with a soul).
Glad to see I'm not the only one on the list to think so.

At the Museum in Brussels we had several concerts with two Steinway pianos,
a model B  (four years old) and known as to be an excellent one and an old
Steinway (same size) of 1867 wih all original parts.
About everyone I talked to afther the concerts (pianotechnicians, musicians,
friends) said to prefer the older one.
Most pianists who are playing at the museum prefer also the older Stw.

I'd like to go back in time when those older pianos were new (especially for
our old Pleyel 1842 and the Stw1867)
so I could  listen at the differences in sound.
(hey USA, when do you expect to be ready whith your time machine??)
Otherways a good medicine so I could live one more hundred years and listen
to this beautifull Stw D you gave me for free a long time ago.

Pierre




----- Original Message -----
From: "antares" <antares@euronet.nl>
To: "THE LIST" <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 9:03 PM
Subject: soundboards


>
>
> I have posed this question before :
>
> If you had the choice : you can get a brand new Steinway D and you can
> get a hundred year old Steinway D...
> What would be your choice?
>
> André Oorebeek
>
>
>
>
> Hi Stephane
>
> I enjoy this post & your thoughtfulness to the subject. Just a
> couple Of comments interspersed below
>
>
>
>
>
> Stephane writes
>
> A soundboard is a filter (even a resonant one). No way all the energy
> of the string will ever end up in acoustic energy, nor will the
> ineluctable losses ever be even through the scale. And that is great.
> A soundboard has a personality that comes from what one would describe
> as defects in regard of the basis parameters. I would describe the
> personality of a board as the unique blend it features between many
> more parameters, such as subtle and aesthetically more or less
> interesting discrepancies curves in volume, sustain and evenness across
> the scale of each of the partials of each note, their thump, and the
> resonance's in release phase.
>
> Unfortunately (ah, maybe not), this is much less easy to have under
> control, and leads us to humility in front of the miracle of nature, as
> there exist some blends that make you believe in god, while others, uh,
> not really.
>
> ...>>>>> I agree in a way, that even with some tonal defects many older
> boards have a charming musical quality about them, But When the defects
> become to great however, which, is usually in the 5th & 6th and then
> into the 4th octaves the quality of musical expression diminishes &
> that's when my ears get disinterested. Disinterest because of loss of
> sustain in the melody range which is replaced with the
> insidious thwacking percussive sound I can't voice out nor tolerate in
> music.
>
>
>
>
> This being said, my opinion about old soundboards is that they have
> gathered with time (cell crush, down in resine percentage, loss of
> elasticity, whatever) a stronger and more unique personality, as
> defined here.
>
> > I Assume you mean more personality than a new board.
>
> I think humbly, this conclusion is really subjective. If you mean a
> stronger or more unique personality to that of a new rib crowned or
> redesigned board system then I would ask if you've had opportunity to
> hear one of the boards( & personalities thereof) that many of us are
> producing in private shops here in the U.S.
>
> From the point of view of a winemaker he has had opportunity to taste
> good old wines & newer wines compare the two or many. He has a
> different experience & exposure to many more expereinces than the
> casual wine drinker who, may think that two buck chuck ( cheap wine
> here) is a fine delicacsy.
>
> All this to say Many wonderful soundboard tones & personality comes
> in many forms & flavors & many of those are new one off boards produced
> in small shops.
>
> Ask Dave Andersen about new versus old. He didn't know if new could
> match or equal a really fine old board that had retained many of it's
> magic properties. And now....................
>
>
>
> The whole life of a soundboard contributes to it's unique sound. This
> doesn't mean that all personalities please me. But the personalities
> who do are not at all the most powerful and long lasting and most even
> across scale of every parameter ones.
>
> The fact is that crown ,bearing & tone have a life span. My expereince
> here in the U.S. is that many techs, dealers & general public simply
> want to give some unrealistic mystique & expectaion to a board that has
> out lived it's life, performed well, but thru time lost it's vitality.
> The result of this & I see it ALL the time is that pianos that are
> "rebuilt" or rebuilt and sold under some B.S. notion that it has the
> original board & that old is superior is disengenuos & ignorant at
> best & false advertising or fraud at worst.
>
> Many Folks are getting ripped off. It's very easy as a tech to fall
> into the trap of giving an estimate of repair with the over optimistic
> idea that the old ,flat,cracked to smithereens board will somehow come
> to life if certain incantations are performed over it or magic varnish
> is applied.
>
> Know how I know??? Cause long ago I used to be there & was
> disappointed & my sleep suffered.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Same for old boards, in my opinion. When I hear an old piano in need
> of restoration, I always take the time to tune it, and I can then hear,
> even with worn hammers, loss of crown etc. if the board has a
> personality (that is, thus, a blend of so called defects) that makes me
> want to give it it's chance to appear in full monthly. If I don't feel
> it has potential, I don't buy it.
>
> Your ears are probably really good & you can hear it, meaning defects
> and loss of crown & tonal vitality.. For me I just had to get honest &
> put myself in the place of the poor trusting client and ask. Would I
> wanto to pay for the product I was producing. After restoring
> everything else would I compromise the very soul of the instrument.
>
> The answer became a resounding NO!!
>
>
>
>
> Newer boards may or may not have personality. In my world, they are
> like 1m75 blondes with B2 breasts and sinusoidal shape at hips with 65
> kg weight and red lipstick. Why do I prefer redheads with the nose
> slightly bent to the left a tiny bit overweight and with intelligence
> in the look ?
>
> May I suggest Stephane, that it's possible the new boards you are
> hearing probably do look like the blondes you describe. A good rib
> crowned new board however has a lot of personality & probably resembles
> your taste in redheads. Yeah Baby!!!!!!
>
> Friendly greetings back your way
>
> Dale
>
>
>
>
> Friendly greetings,
>
>
>
> Stéphane Collin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> friendly greetings
> from
> André Oorebeek
>
> Vita Dura Est
>
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