More CC vs RC questions was RE: Killer Octave & Pitch Raise

[Overs Pianos]

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At 2:58 PM +0100 16/2/05, Richard Brekne wrote:
>
>. . . Objectivity often suffers . . .

[then follows with]

>. . . to <<prove>> that one or another method is more or less 
>successfull then another.  Should one actually wish to argue that 
>point . . . then it is simply impossible to ignore that the 
>overwhelmingly vast majority of concert pianists will choose 
>instruments that employ CC boards.

Oh of course - all of the above mentioned concert pianists have tried 
and discarded RC&S boarded instruments as inferior? Concert pianists 
choose CC boards because, at this point in the evolution of the 
piano, they don't have any option.

Why don't you similarly 'prove' that, because most folks travel via 
wheeled terrestrial vehicles, magnetic levitation must be an inferior 
concept to wheeled transport? Clearly the proof is there. Almost all 
humans use wheeled vehicles for their day to day transport.


At 6:27 AM -0800 16/2/05, David Love wrote:
>   Why doesn't compressing the panel make
>it stiffer?

I'm not sure that it does or doesn't. It will probably depend on 
whether the spring rate of the panel assembly is linear or 
progressive. I don't think anyone has conclusively proven this by 
observation at this time. I have done some measuring on the test 
bench, but it remains inconclusive until I do further testing and 
measuring. I'm not suggesting that it either is or isn't linear. I 
just haven't measured enough panels to be sure that the observations 
I have made are reliable and not just an aberration.

In other posts there has been much speculation about which 
alternative construction method results in more or less stiffness and 
from which components (ribs or panel or compression etc). However, 
the ultimate factors which are important to the tonal outcome will be 
the sound board area distribution, the stiffness (or spring rate) of 
the entire assembly and its stiffness/mass ratio (which ideally will 
also vary for different sections of the scale), regardless of the 
design type. In both CC and RC&S the overall stiffness of an assembly 
will not be equal to the sum of its component-part stiffness. 
Therefore, to choose one example, the RC&S board will have an 
assembly stiffness which is considerably greater than just the sum of 
the free-rib stiffness, plus the free-panel stiffness, plus the 
free-bridge stiffness. The three parts will come together to provide 
a much stiffer overall assembly. The same obviously will occur with 
CC panel construction. I don't think it proves or disproves much to 
speak about the relative stiffness of one type against the other, 
since it is possible to vary the stiffness of a CC panel by varying 
both the rib and panel dimensions, and the RC&S board is almost 
infinitely variable with regard to its stiffness/mass relationship.

I realise that many believe that some panel compression is required 
for a satisfactory result - even Dale. But I suspect that we might 
still be a long way from the end of the RC&S 'development road. In 
time, even Dale might change his view. I might change mine. But at 
this time, clearly Dale is getting some wonderful results with his 
own sound boards. The re-boarded D he took to the recent convention 
has won many fans. As far as I know, our no. 5  is the only fuller 
RC&S boarded piano to have a CD made from it. Del and Ron or Terry, 
any recordings from your pianos out there? The recording of our first 
CD on no. 5 will be completed today. Greg Newell, I'll let the list 
know when the CD is being released for sale. I'll put some Mp3 from 
the sessions on the website sometime soon.

Since there are virtually no pianos out there with RC&S boards for 
anyone to hear at this time, perhaps before passing judgement, we 
should all try a couple of the new RC&S construction instruments 
before rejecting it as inferior technology. I have to tell you that 
for me, while I am gaining experience and drawing some conclusions, 
many questions remain.

Ron O.
-- 
OVERS PIANOS - SYDNEY
    Grand Piano Manufacturers
_______________________

Web http://overspianos.com.au
mailto:ron@overspianos.com.au
_______________________
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