---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment On 6-feb-05, at 3:54, David Andersen wrote: >> If one insists that an aural tuning is better, so be it, I prefer to=20= >> say that >> some aural tuners, probably like David Andersen, are really fantastic=20= >> tuners, >> but that it takes a whole lot of energy and stress to produce 5 of=20 >> those >> tunings a day. >> Working with a near perfect ETD is far less stressful and costs far=20= >> less >> energy. >> Again, the unisons are, in my opinion, more important, and so is the=20= >> voicing. >> >> >> See, I choose for an economical use of my time with a maximum result. >> >> friendly greetings >> from >> ANDR=C9 OOREBEEK > > > Absolutely. Agree 100%. If I was tuning 5 pianos a day, I would=20 > definitely > look at the Verituner. By the grace of God, I don't have to do that=20= > these > days; just 2 or at the most 3 pianos a day, with other interesting = work > thrown in. Alright, I 've been thinking about dizz..... I don't think that there is an ongoing war between ETD'ers and=20 Aural'ers. The time has past and is gone, where older aural tuners scorned=20 technicians with sophisticated equipment. I think I am right when I say that we -mostly- all agree that only the=20= very best ETD's can easily match the very best tunings made by aural=20 tuners. If one does not and can not agree with this, then I consider this=20 otherwise highly interesting and informative discussion one sided and=20 invalid. I do not that think - I - would spend more time on this=20 issue, because 1. all my critical customers are extremely satisfied=20 with my ETD tuning and 2. for me personally it is out of the question=20 to start all over again with aural tuning, especially so because I have=20= had it and I have done that for the greater part of my professional=20 life. Again, I wish to bring forward here, that I would insist that any=20 tuning student should learn to tune aurally and then tune at least 10=20 000 pianos without even looking at an ETD. If that tuner then chooses to keep on tuning aurally, or chooses to buy=20= an ETD..... fine, does it matter? are we at least trying a create a=20 free society, or what? Which brings me to the fact that you David (Andersen) have the choice=20 of tuning no more than 2 or at the most 3 pianos. I think it could be enlightening to some here, that there is something=20= else in play here : There are some huge differences between the USA and at least the=20 Netherlands (and other European countries). What differences am I talking about? 1. there is the fact that the tuners/technicians here in Holland are=20 divided in two groups : Those who are self employed, and those who work for a piano store. Most of the tuners/technicians work for a piano store and have a=20 regular income with obligatory health insurance and reasonable pension=20= plans. Their income can never be fantastic because their employer needs to=20 make money too. Way in the past, like in the 19th and first halve of the 20th century,=20= those employed in a piano store, were living in Dickensian conditions.=20= They were forced to work 6 days a week, had maybe just a few days a=20 year vacation (or never), made very long days and were forced to tune=20 at the least 7 pianos every day (outside the store). We know those stories. That changed in the second halve of the 20th century, after WW-II. Socialistic ideas were very strong then and one began to form unions.=20 This happened all over the World, except in fascist countries in=20 general, or in places where people were (and still are) brutalized and=20= forced to stay poor for ever (like in some African countries where=20 greed and the most stupefying selfishness prevails in the upper warrior=20= clans). The profession of the Dutch piano tuners was placed under the wings of=20= the "Metal Union" and every year, a small delegation of representatives=20= was sent to the Hague, the political centre in Holland, to negotiate=20 improving conditions for their piano tuner/technician members. When I entered the 'market' in the early seventies, I began to work for=20= a big piano store in Amsterdam, and, immediately was told to start=20 training hard because it was customary (still) that the tuners did 7=20 tunings a day (I have told this here before, but repeat i to illustrate=20= the working conditions here). At the same time, tuning a piano then cost about 15,00 US $ ! in the=20 early seventies! Tuning a piano was considered a low tech kind of work, and if one said=20= that his (female tuners did not yet exist then) daily work consisted of=20= tuning pianos, most people would start to laugh or giggle. They=20 considered it a funny profession, haha. No wonder wages were very low, and conditions in general were so so for=20= the piano tuners. No wonder too, that at a certain moment, more and more tuners left=20 their erstwhile employers, and started a business for themselves. Those, who took that step, did not have an easy time either. Health=20 insurance and pension plans were, and are, very expensive, and, above=20 all, the Dutch Government always has squeezed every single soul to the=20= innermost bones, to get to the last excess marrow. sob sob... With this background in mind, it is perhaps more easy to understand=20 that the price development (in general) has taken only a very slow rise=20= over the last 6 decades. Only 5 years ago, tuning a piano cost something like US $ 55,- to 60,- The introduction of the Euro has put the cost of living on its head.=20 All prices jumped with at least 30 to 50 % and in some cases, the=20 European currency in general, just doubled, just like that. (don't ask=20= me why and how). This price may seem not so bad compared to you Americans Most piano stores now ask around 75 to 80 US $ (This price may seem not=20= so bad compared to you Americans, but the comparison between the US and=20= European currency has lost its reality, due to the inevitable slow=20 sinking away of the US dollar, thanks to your President), but it is=20 actually still too low, because the costs of a car are included and the=20= cost of living has almost doubled here. The heritage of tuning so many piano's per day, has come to around 30=20 piano's a week, through the influence of the Piano union. That means=20 that every piano tuner who is not self employed has to tune 6 pianos a=20= day, like it or not. Wages are still so so, but the obligatory health and pension plan is ok. Those who are self employed, aim for at least 5 pianos a day, because=20 their costs are high (car, pension, health plan, taxes) but at least=20 their wages are not skimmed of by a so called boss, hrmpf. They make more hours, sometimes 10 to 12 hours a day, including=20 driving, calling customers, and administration, but they have one huge=20= advantage over the employed ones : they are free, and if they choose to=20= go to Antarctica tomorrow, they can do that. Maybe this long explanation of the Dutch piano tuner in general, will=20 make you understand that 1. Dutch tuners were always forced to tune an awful lot of pianos a day=20= (myself included), 2. always tried to make an extra buck for themselves either in the=20 evening or in weekends, 3. Were, and are, therefor prone to early wear and tear of their bodies, 4. Are for those above reasons, more than ready to make a new start=20 with a nice and relaxing ETD. I am certainly not in the lowest ranks of the tuner world here. I=20 charge my customers 70 Euros which is 90 US Dollars. However, I am able to tune any more pianos than 2 a day otherwise my=20 poor left hand will hurt more. So I try to earn my living mostly with technical work, like regulating=20= and voicing. That is all very nice, but the level of my clientele is=20 not of the same level you may have in the chintzy parts of LA. I know=20 LA pretty well, you can definitely not compare it with Amsterdam, or=20 Holland for that matter. There is a lot of wealth there and incredible amount of incredibly rich=20= people. There is no Bel Air, Hollywood, or Beverly Hills here. It is so different David. I hope that anybody, reading this, understands better my arguments why,=20= I in the first place, and many others here, were more than ready for a=20= sleek machine. Too much repetitive work, too many chinese equal=20 temperament puzzles every day till your 65th birthday. It is killing. I consider myself lucky, to be able my beautiful work, so I am not=20 complaining. It is just that we have a completely different background. Sometimes it is interesting and also enlightening to better understand=20= how other live, especially on this list, which counts a number of techs=20= who are living in other places in the World. > And maybe I just THINK I do fantastic tunings; it could be all in > my head; perhaps I'm just a big blowhard who's got everybody fooled. I hope to find out someday soon?, and I am looking forward to that=20 moment. I have already been able to check on the skills of my friend Ricardo in=20= wet and freezing Norway. Let me tell y'all that he too is one of the best I so far have=20 encountered. Keep that in mind when he pokes around this list, hehehehe... > My affection and respect to you, Master Oorebeek. > > David A. Likewise, and may da foice be witha ya *(; > O <:)* friendly greetings from ANDR=C9 OOREBEEK Where 'music' is no harm can be www.concertpianoservice.nl ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 10160 bytes Desc: not available Url : https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/af/64/c8/f9/attachment.bin ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
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