The Art & Science, was RE: Setting tuning pins

John Formsma john@formsmapiano.com
Mon, 19 Dec 2005 20:12:44 -0600


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I've found that a smooth pull motion works best for me on Steinway grands,
although on some the jerk motion will work. While using a smooth motion,
applying some downward pressure on the end of the tuning lever may also help
reduce the flagpoling effect. It's something you have to get used to, but
once you figure it out, you'll have it forever.

 

Regards,

John Formsma

 

  _____  

From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Alan Barnard
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 7:04 PM
To: James H Frazee; Pianotech
Subject: Re: The Art & Science, was RE: Setting tuning pins

 

To use the slow pull on the S&S--especially if the pin is jumpy--it seems to
work well to first lower pitch a few cents then gently, slowly, steadily
(while whacking) raise it to slightly, I say again, slightly over pitch.
Then just let it settle (while whacking) without pushing the pin back, i.e.,
without using the hammer to "set" the pin.

 

If your first pull is not high enough or, especially, if you pulled too high
and end up sharp, then you need to push down a few cents and start over. You
get pretty good at hitting it on the mark, after a bit.

 

Have fun.

 

Alan Barnard

Salem, MO

-----Original Message----- 
From: James H Frazee 
Sent: Dec 19, 2005 4:12 PM 
To: tune4u@earthlink.net 
Subject: Re: The Art & Science, was RE: Setting tuning pins 

Alan,

 

Thanks for your thoughtful and complete reply!  Actually, I normally use Liz
Baker's WJB method although I started out using Randy Potter's/Franz Mohr's
method simply because I had taken the Potter course until I gave up on it.
I haven't tried the slow pull yet, though, and that may be just the ticket
for this piano!  It's an M that suffers from what I call "aggressive
neglect"; hadn't been tuned for eighteen years, was over a full whole step
flat to start and was so dusty inside that the dust had actually solidified.
That said, it took two tunings to get it playable, except for one string of
E3 which would slip its gears if I fussed too much.  Finally got it to hold
and told the owner to keep his fingers crossed for his party last weekend
and call me if it went out again.  So far, no call but that could also be
because they won't touch or tune the piano for another 18 years.   I will
try to the slow pull, though, because it would probably be safer on this
one.  Thanks again!

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Alan Barnard <mailto:tune4u@earthlink.net>  

To: Pianotech <mailto:pianotech@ptg.org>  

Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 4:05 PM

Subject: The Art & Science, was RE: Setting tuning pins

 

On many Shteinveigh Und Zunz you have to kinda sneak up to the pitch. 

 

Gee, that was clear ...

 

Let me try again. The idea of setting the pin by jerking it slightly over
pitch and back pressuring to settle it on pitch doesn't always work on the
S&S. I have often found it helpful to use the slow steady pull rather than
"notch" tuning on these babies. That way you can estimate the slightly
amount of overpull needed and let it settle to pitch without putting any
back pressure on the hammer. This is the ONLY way I've been able to tune the
tenor and low treble of one particular M that I tune.

 

Having said that, here's a quote from the Randy Potter Course: "Steinway
pianos do not have plate bushings and some technicians have difficulty
getting the pins in tune because their method of tuning ends up wiggling the
tuning pin around (flagpoling), especially if the pins are tight. I find
that I can get the piano into tune quicker, and it tends to hold better,
when I use notch tuning for these pianos. And this is the method I was
taught when I studied with Franz Mohr ... (at Steinway)"

 

See? Now that is different from MY experience. Is either idea "right" or
"wrong"? No, I don't think so.

 

Liz Baker, who kept the St. Louis Symphony's three Steinway D's humming
sweetly for 21 years, calls her technique "wiggle, jerk, and bang." She puts
a vibration energy into the hammer (the wiggle) then makes very small
notches (the jerk) while hitting a sharp blow on the key (the bang). That's
different than the slow pull I described above but anyone who can tune for
Rachmaninoff concertos obviously knows how to set a stable pin, so her
technique is certainly worth a try, too. 

 

Having said all that, I'd like to recommend the book "Different Strokes" by
Ken Burton, RPT, available thru Randy Potter, www.pianotuning,com. Not only
are many concepts, theories, and techniques described but he begins the book
by saying (page 3) "Every piano tunes differently." I sincerely believe that
is true! 

 

Steinways, perhaps because they lack collars, DO seem to have a
characteristic feel BUT it is by no means specific or unique, and there is
certainly no single approach that works on all of them, or any other type or
brand of pianos.

 

I have come to believe that ONLY tuning many pianos, with some
experimentation and active THINKING about what the pins feel like, what
different hammers feel like, etc., gives one the real skill necessary to
confidently approach any piano and know that you can create a good and
STABLE tuning. In short, I don't think you develop a "technique" with the
hammer that is unique to you, unique to a type of hammer, unique to any
brand of pianos, or unique to any piano, for that matter. 

 

What we must develop (it only comes with much experience) is the ability to
FINESSE each pin into place--regardless of pin feel, string friction,
etc.--based on the tactile and aural feedback THAT PARTICULAR pin is giving
you as you tune it.

 

Though there are technical skills to learn and science and theory, I
strongly believe that ultimately the ability to tune quickly, well, and with
stability, is a rather highly refined ART. And it just flat takes time and
experience to develop any art form.

 

Alan Barnard

Salem, Missouri

 

 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: James H Frazee <mailto:jimfrazee@msn.com>  

To: pianotech <mailto:pianotech@ptg.org> 

Sent: 12/19/2005 12:39:26 PM 

Subject: Setting tuning pins

 

What methodSleeping half-moon emoticon do you use for setting tuning pins,
particularly one that "jumps" on an S&S grand?





Salem, Missouri

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