This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment Phil Bondi wrote; > Alan, I've tuned 3 pianos since I received this 'tip' about tuning D3=20 > after A4, and yes, from my brief rookie experience with this method,=20 > this 12th may need to be less than perfect in order for it to fit. >=20 > Subjects used: >=20 > Boston GP 163 > S&S Upright 45 > Yamaha G1 >=20 > I had a problem with the Upright, but the other 2 were clean. Don't tune it a perfect 12th. Include it in your temperament as a = 12th. I was in the middle of replying to Alan Barnard's first post on = this but I will post it here half finished as it were. Don't confuse = Richard Brekne's post on P12ths with mine which was about the = importance of D3.=20 Alan Barnard wrote; =20 >>>>"Since most temperaments work well with about 1/2 beat narrow D4-A4 = fifth and likewise with about a 1/2 beat wide D3-D4 octave, if you tuned = D3 to A4 absolutely beatless (at A5) you would have two notes (in a two = octave temperament) that were dead-on and accounting for inharminicity = across the break in most pianos=20 Then, tuning A3 to A4, and D4 to D3 while checking the fourths and = fifths created among those four notes you'd be pretty confident you had = four solidly and rather easily placed notes.=20 Anything wrong with this? ">>>> Nothing wrong with the strategy, but I don't tune D3 to A4 beatless at = A5. I tune them at 1 beat per second at A5 because A3 to D4 and D4 to A4 = are 1bps. All three of the above mentioned intervals have their common = coincident partial at A5. This is the most fundamental beat rate of = equal temperament. It's very easy to achieve if you reference it with = your watch. Now, to me at any rate, making the two 5ths intervals that you have in = your bearing scale match up with each other will reinforce the 3rd = partial which just happens to be the most harmonic of the partial series = and the loudest. It's this reinforcing of the 3rd partial that makes the = piano sing. Don't forget also that the 5th is the most common interval = in music. Of course there may be many of you who will say I'm talking = absolute crap. If the beat rate can't slow down to 1bps at A5 for the interval D3 to = A4 without incurring a howl in the A3 to A4 octave, then you know you = have a real lousy scale design on your hands. I have a sneaky feeling = that this is why manufacturers tend to avoid wound strings as much as = possible and favour the much maligned low tension alternative in the = lower tenor. But I digress! When you get to the other notes in your bearing scale, treat their = respective 5th intervals as you would when comparing 3rds i.e. a smooth = progression. So for instance when you are tuning E3 to B4, you must = listen to the B5 coincident partial and not the B4 fundamental. Going up = to a higher plane as it were gives you twice the accuracy and double the = beat rate to make it easier to make your judgement; in this case the = beat rate will be just slightly faster than 1bps. >>> "Now, find me a similar exercise for nailing down F3 or F4 (NOT = estimating beat rates) and I'd be one excited camper, because after that = a two octave temperament (C3-B4 for the RPT tuning test) would be pretty = easy. " >>> Keep in mind the basic 1bps rate. Any 5th interval you tune above your = D3 to A4 starting point will be progressively faster than 1bps listening = at their respective 5th partial coincidents. Any 5th interval you tune = above the D4 to A5 interval should beat progressively faster than 1bps = listening at their respective 3rd partial conincidents. Likewise with = the corresponding 4th intervals; your starting point is A4 to D4 which = in equal temperament terms should beat at 1bps listening at the same A5 = coincident partial. Any 4th intervals tuned below should have a = progressive beat rate of slightly less than 1bps. Any 4ths you tune = above this point should increase progressively faster than 1bps. Now = your F's are slap bang in the middle of all this = humdingaloo...........and the beat goes on.=20 End of part 1. Episode 2 may follow if time allows. AF ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Phil Bondi" <phil@philbondi.com> To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 4:55 AM Subject: Re: Hey, Aural Gurus ... >=20 >=20 >=20 >>I'm still curious about the P12th D3-A4 bit, though. Is the logic = correct or >>would different pianos require a, shall we say, less-than-perfect = 12th? >> =20 >> > Alan, I've tuned 3 pianos since I received this 'tip' about tuning D3=20 > after A4, and yes, from my brief rookie experience with this method,=20 > this 12th may need to be less than perfect in order for it to fit. >=20 > Subjects used: >=20 > Boston GP 163 > S&S Upright 45 > Yamaha G1 >=20 > I had a problem with the Upright, but the other 2 were clean. >=20 > -Phil Bondi(Fl) >=20 >=20 > ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: https://www.moypiano.com/ptg/pianotech.php/attachments/05/88/5a/cb/attachment.htm ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment--
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